EVVOO? CO, PO? By the bottle, gallon or case?

Even as I jest, there is a serious consideration:

I know Diesel used VO (I think, peanut oil (PO)). However,as is the case with corn for ethanol, using a food product as a fuel has far reaching considerations and impact, not the least of which is the eventual competition for the product. The result will be an increase in the price of the product as a food.

So, while it's cool now to walk into a supermarket to buy your fuel, the price is bound to increase.

Obviously we need a product which can used as fuel which is not also part of the food chain.

 

That is totally awesome...It is beating the system, sticking it to the man, and all that stuff. I would be afraid that it might affect the engine components for the long term, but I wouldn't know either.

 

Pardon my doom and gloom. He's not sticking it to the man - he's sticking it to the consumer who uses that vegetable oil for, well, food. And I guess that's the question. Does that vegetable oil get used as a food, or to run his car. Do we get down to who's need is greater, or who can out bid the other for that product.

Essentially, this is my argument concerning the use of corn for ethanol for a fuel. In fact, here in ethanol country (South Dakota/Iowa), I'm not going to buy gas with ethanol.

Corn is food, vegetable oil (or VO) is to be used for a food. Neither, as far as I'm concerned are appropriate for use in an automobile.

 

I think the best solution would be that everyone just slow down a little..A small decrease in demand would really decrease prices...Then we wouldn't run into these "moral dilemmas"!

 

It seems, au contrare, that there will be no small decrease in demand if people driving diesels decide to get VO for fuel.

I just returned from the local supermarket. At the milk case, a note was posted explaining why the price of milk had incresed from '06. The reason is that more corn and soy, previously used for feed for cows is being sucked up for ethanol. The result is that a) the price of milk increases, and b) more dairy farmers are leaving this business which, of course will also drive up the cost of milk.

So, tho you may place quotation marks around moral dilemmas, this is more than a, "moral" dilemma, it is in fact a real life economic dilemma.

So, take your deep breath and tell me what would be your solution.

 

I really don't want to get into an argument. I'm sorry if I offended you. But since you asked, I don't think there is a good solution. I really see our country running into some very tough times in the future, though I hope I'm wrong. Anything that would work would require our government to step in and make some drastic laws, aka dictatorship time. This topic has sparked many an argument...Since this won't happen (IMHO, of course), I'm doing what I can, within reason.

 

I'm not looking for an argument. However this is worthy of discussion. Decisions which at first blush seem like a great idea turn to drost upon closer examination.

It seems to me that we should look for a substance/product which is not part of the food chain. Oil has that advantage. Unfortunately, it is limited in quantity and location.

Corn, or vegetable oils seem a likely replacement for oil. Renewable and found in quantity within our borders we jump at them.

However, as more corn is used for ethanol, more corn will be demanded (it is probably the most widely used sweetner in the food industry). That will push up the price of the ethanol, the corn (popped and on the cob), dairy products, beef, pork, etc.

Instead of someone buying a quart of VO a year,to use for cooking, or salads, diesel users will be buying VO weekly, pushing demand for VO and hence prices.

I'm liberal through and through. However, I know (at 70 years of age) that once the gov't decides on a course of action, it becomes that tanker at sea which takes hours to change direction.

No, you didn't offend me. You actually helped crystalize my thinking.

Using products which are part of our food chain to fuel our lifestyle is not a great idea.

 

I'm glad that I didn't offend you. It is hard to tell through text what someone is thinking. Since we are having a nice debate here, and not an argument, let me mention something. First, yes, if the demand for food/"food used as fuel" is higher than the supply, then bad things happen, aka people starve and die. This cannot be taken lightly. However, as an engineer, I think it's beautiful if we were able to use agricultural products as both fuel and food, assuming supply could keep up with demand. Its being able to use one substance for multiple purposes. That reduces complexity. It would be living off the land. This is only a dream though, because as you have pointed out, there is no way for our agricultural sector to grow enough product to feed everyone at a reasonable price and also enough for our gas-thirsty nation to feed at the trough. There was an excellent article in Wired magazine about this issue several months ago.

I personally think the best course of action is to push more electric cars. The averge American family has more than 1 vehicle. One can be gas powered, one electric. The electric one can easily meet the average commuter's needs. If the family needs to go on a longer trip, they still have a conventional gas car. This way no magic substance to replace oil is needed as quickly. Instead, we would effectively be powering a lot of cars via coal and nuke power. That's a lot better, in my opinion, than oil. The article just posted on cleanmpg.com says that we have 150 years of coal left in this country. By that time I can hope renewable power sources will have taken over for our electric car needs. The technology is getting there...One can hope.

 

Thanks for your response.

I do not have a lot technical training/ability, having taught biology for25 years, I think as you do that a renewable source of energy would be valuable to us. However, as you indicate it is more likely to lead to a choice between putting it into the fuel tank or into our mouths.

The problem I see with this now is that farmers (and while some are still family, I think more are corporate) make money from the increased demand. Down the line, if we find the technology to convert, shall we say, weeds to a fuel who can make money from weeds?

Well, perhaps I'm overstating the situation.

The GM electric has come and gone. I did look at it (I owned a Saturn at the time) and found it failed to meet my needs because there was no where to put my bike.

Most of my driving around SoCal is to various ride locations, somewhere between 25-40 miles from home. Perfect for an electric car. But, that one lacked carrying capacity.

Anyway, nice chatting w/you.

 

What's the fine for avoiding petrol tax by using SVO?

With all of England's cameras and surveillance it should be pretty easy to nab the folks buying too much VO.

Are people getting busted?