Autoweek fails physics 101
#1
Autoweek fails physics 101
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...024/LATESTNEWS
The drag is a function of the velocity squared so the wonder is not that the Prius gets worse mileage at high speeds but why do other cars get worse mileage at low speeds! The rest of the article is pure speculation not based on physics taught even in high school.
Bob Wilson
. . .
But at steady highway speeds, the Prius is just another gasoline-powered car. Worse, it lugs around parts that the gasoline engine doesn't need. That's one reason that its EPA fuel economy rating is less on the highway - 51 mpg - than it is in the city - 60 mpg.
. . .
But at steady highway speeds, the Prius is just another gasoline-powered car. Worse, it lugs around parts that the gasoline engine doesn't need. That's one reason that its EPA fuel economy rating is less on the highway - 51 mpg - than it is in the city - 60 mpg.
. . .
Bob Wilson
#2
Re: Autoweek fails physics 101
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...024/LATESTNEWS
The drag is a function of the velocity squared so the wonder is not that the Prius gets worse mileage at high speeds but why do other cars get worse mileage at low speeds! The rest of the article is pure speculation not based on physics taught even in high school.
Bob Wilson
The drag is a function of the velocity squared so the wonder is not that the Prius gets worse mileage at high speeds but why do other cars get worse mileage at low speeds! The rest of the article is pure speculation not based on physics taught even in high school.
Bob Wilson
Other cars can suffer at highway speeds and generally have a "sweet spot" less than say 75 mph. Anecdotal observations indicate that my HAH gets the best mileage at about 55mph, say 42-45 mpg. Things are worse at 75mph with say 36-38mpg being typical.
#3
Re: Autoweek fails physics 101
Bob Wilson
#4
Re: Autoweek fails physics 101
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...024/LATESTNEWS
The drag is a function of the velocity squared so the wonder is not that the Prius gets worse mileage at high speeds but why do other cars get worse mileage at low speeds! The rest of the article is pure speculation not based on physics taught even in high school.
Bob Wilson
The drag is a function of the velocity squared so the wonder is not that the Prius gets worse mileage at high speeds but why do other cars get worse mileage at low speeds! The rest of the article is pure speculation not based on physics taught even in high school.
Bob Wilson
#5
Re: Autoweek fails physics 101
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...024/LATESTNEWS
The drag is a function of the velocity squared so the wonder is not that the Prius gets worse mileage at high speeds but why do other cars get worse mileage at low speeds! The rest of the article is pure speculation not based on physics taught even in high school.
Bob Wilson
The drag is a function of the velocity squared so the wonder is not that the Prius gets worse mileage at high speeds but why do other cars get worse mileage at low speeds! The rest of the article is pure speculation not based on physics taught even in high school.
Bob Wilson
But at steady highway speeds, the Prius is just another REALLY EFFICIENT gasoline-powered car. Worse, it lugs around parts that the gasoline engine doesn't need (thats true when only the ICE is in use). That's one reason that its EPA fuel economy rating is less on the highway - 51 mpg - than it is in the city - 60 mpg.
The WIND drag is a function of velocity squared. In addition, I think rolling and ICE drag are proportional to velocity. The Prius, with its low CDa and low friction everything else, makes it "just another REALLY EFFICIENT gasoline-powered car".
On the other hand, my old Jeep Cherokee was much more consistant than many hybrids - always got about 17-18mpg at most speeds and driving conditions
#6
Re: Autoweek fails physics 101
. . .
The WIND drag is a function of velocity squared. In addition, I think rolling and ICE drag are proportional to velocity. The Prius, with its low CDa and low friction everything else, makes it "just another REALLY EFFICIENT gasoline-powered car".
On the other hand, my old Jeep Cherokee was much more consistant than many hybrids - always got about 17-18mpg at most speeds and driving conditions
The WIND drag is a function of velocity squared. In addition, I think rolling and ICE drag are proportional to velocity. The Prius, with its low CDa and low friction everything else, makes it "just another REALLY EFFICIENT gasoline-powered car".
On the other hand, my old Jeep Cherokee was much more consistant than many hybrids - always got about 17-18mpg at most speeds and driving conditions
Bob Wilson
#7
Re: Autoweek fails physics 101
Even at 60 mph, rolling resistance, ie the drag of the tyres on the road, accounts for ~50% of the power requirement.
Only at speeds beyond this does aerodynamic drag become much more relevant.
As rolling resistance is directly proportional to vehicle weight, any reduction in weight will translate to a considerable reduction in fuel consumption, even at steady highway speeds. This is the main reason for the great highway mileage figures of the 850 kg Insight (the aerodynamic Cd of 0.25 is only a minor contributor).
Only at speeds beyond this does aerodynamic drag become much more relevant.
As rolling resistance is directly proportional to vehicle weight, any reduction in weight will translate to a considerable reduction in fuel consumption, even at steady highway speeds. This is the main reason for the great highway mileage figures of the 850 kg Insight (the aerodynamic Cd of 0.25 is only a minor contributor).
#8
Re: Autoweek fails physics 101
- Goodyear Integritys inflated to 44/42
- Smooth dry pavement
- 75F ambient temp
- No winds
- No AC use
- 250 pound load, occupants + cargo
- Aero drag: 6.37 kW (48.4%)
- Mechanical drag: 3.64 kW (27.7%)
- Tire rolling resistance: 2.25 kW (17.1%)
- Road rolling resistance: 0.43 kW (3.3%)
- Miscellaneous: 0.46 kW (3.3%)
- Total energy use: 13.15 kW
As an aside, this simulator is available for download and purchase from Wayne's site, $22 for either the Windows version or Palm version, $27 for both. It's a handy tool for Prius owners.
Last edited by JimboK; 06-15-2007 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Mention of MPG simulator available for purchase.
#9
Re: Autoweek fails physics 101
But at steady highway speeds, the Prius is just another REALLY EFFICIENT gasoline-powered car. Worse, it lugs around parts that the gasoline engine doesn't need (thats true when only the ICE is in use). That's one reason that its EPA fuel economy rating is less on the highway - 51 mpg - than it is in the city - 60 mpg.
A disclaimer: Though the simulator allows entry of a load down to -1000 pounds, I don't know if its mathematical models are designed to account for a negative number.
EDIT: In an e-mail dialog with Wayne, he confirms: "Yes they can handle negative numbers in the 'Load' area; I went to a an extreme to modularize the programs just in case they become popular in order to crank out versions for several different vehicles."
Last edited by JimboK; 06-15-2007 at 11:04 AM. Reason: Update from Wayne Brown
#10
Re: Autoweek fails physics 101
Using Wayne Brown's Prius MPG simulator, rolling resistance accounts for 20.3 % of power requirements at 60 MPH for the NHW20 Prius. This assumes the following:
As an aside, this simulator is available for download and purchase from Wayne's site, $22 for either the Windows version or Palm version, $27 for both. It's a handy tool for Prius owners.
- Goodyear Integritys inflated to 44/42
- Smooth dry pavement
- 75F ambient temp
- No winds
- No AC use
- 250 pound load, occupants + cargo
- Aero drag: 6.37 kW (48.4%)
- Mechanical drag: 3.64 kW (27.7%)
- Tire rolling resistance: 2.25 kW (17.1%)
- Road rolling resistance: 0.43 kW (3.3%)
- Miscellaneous: 0.46 kW (3.3%)
- Total energy use: 13.15 kW
As an aside, this simulator is available for download and purchase from Wayne's site, $22 for either the Windows version or Palm version, $27 for both. It's a handy tool for Prius owners.
Use 746 watts/hp to get the equivalent kW:
60 mph ~= 17.5 hp -> 13,055 watts (~52 MPG, measured)
70 mph ~= 25 hp -> 18,650 watts (~49 MPG)
The challenge is adding the ICE efficiency as a function of load and this remains a non-trivial problem.
Bob Wilson