Backlash against hybrids
#1
04-10-2006, 01:06 PM
Backlash against hybrids
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In Carpool Lanes, Hybrids Find Cold Shoulders
Other motorists gripe that drivers of the fuel-efficient vehicles are slowing the HOV flow.
By Amanda Covarrubias, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer, April 10, 2006
When California allowed solo occupants of hybrid cars to use carpool lanes last year, many thought they were merging onto a narrow strip of car culture heaven.
But increasingly, hybrid owners say they feel like the victims of road rage.
Carpoolers accuse them of driving too slowly in order to maximize their fuel efficiency, and of clogging diamond lanes that were once clear.
Hybrid motorists even have a term for the ill will: "Prius backlash."
"There's a mentality out there that we're a bunch of liberal hippies or we're trying to make some statement on the environment," said Travis Ruff, a real estate agent from Newbury Park who drives a Toyota Prius. "People are a lot less friendly than when I drove a Mercedes."
Caltrans, which has issued carpool-lane stickers for about 50,000 hybrid cars, plans to study the effect of hybrids on carpool lanes, starting with the 405, 210 and 105 freeways.
"There's not enough excess capacity to absorb the hybrids," said James Moore, director of USC's transportation engineering program. "I think the foreseeable outcome here is that the congestion advantage we traditionally attribute to [carpool] lanes will disappear."
A debate over carpool-lane congestion also is occurring in Virginia, which like California allows solo hybrid drivers to use the lanes. Last month, the Virginia Legislature placed curbs on hybrid drivers using the lanes in peak hours, requiring three or more people per vehicle, except for those grandfathered in.
The California Legislature approved the hybrids in carpool lanes as a way of encouraging the use of the low-emission, high-fuel-economy vehicles.
The law grants carpool-lane access to hybrids that get at least 45 mpg. So far, only the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic and Honda Insight qualify. The vehicles use small internal-combustion engines in combination with electric motors to increase gas mileage and reduce air pollution. Larger hybrid SUVs and luxury sedans with solo drivers are not allowed in carpool lanes.
From the beginning, the law has prompted complaints from carpoolers. But in recent months the criticism has grown louder as carpoolers accuse hybrid drivers of clogging the lanes, also known as high-occupancy vehicle lanes.
"Prius drivers tend to drive slower, and it makes the HOV lanes slower," said Theresa Poprac, who commutes on the 405 Freeway every morning from her home near Los Angeles International Airport to her job as head of sales for an educational software company in Costa Mesa.
The chatter is more biting in Internet car chat rooms, where some carpoolers have declared themselves "hybrid haters."
"These [drivers] barely go 65 mph and allow no one to pass them on the right," fumed one driver on the Edmunds.com car town hall. "Talk about road rage!"
"Go with the flow, or get the heck outta the way!!!," wrote another in support.
Beyond the driving habits of hybrid users, carpoolers gripe that all those Priuses are beginning to clog the diamond lanes. On some freeways, it's clear hybrid drivers are shaving substantial minutes off their commute by going in the carpool lane. But on others, that doesn't appear to be the case.
Mar Vista resident and hybrid owner Jan Strnand, who often drives the 405 Freeway to Carson, said he has not been impressed with the program.
"Much of the time, the HOV lanes and standard lanes are going at the same rates, so there's no advantage," said Strnand, a television writer. "You do the math . How many can you add [to the carpool lane] before it's more of a deterrent than it is a help?"
Assemblywoman Fran Pavley (D-Agoura Hills), who proposed the hybrid carpool-lane bill, said most hybrid users tell her they love the privilege. Still, she acknowledged that on some freeways, the time saved during rush hour has been a question something the state study will seek to sort out.
But the Prius backlash isn't confined to California's carpool lanes. On a recent episode of Comedy Central's "South Park," one of the cartoon characters persuades everyone in town to buy a hybrid car. But hybrids end up creating their own air pollution. Not smog. "Smug."
In Carpool Lanes, Hybrids Find Cold Shoulders
Other motorists gripe that drivers of the fuel-efficient vehicles are slowing the HOV flow.
By Amanda Covarrubias, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer, April 10, 2006
When California allowed solo occupants of hybrid cars to use carpool lanes last year, many thought they were merging onto a narrow strip of car culture heaven.
But increasingly, hybrid owners say they feel like the victims of road rage.
Carpoolers accuse them of driving too slowly in order to maximize their fuel efficiency, and of clogging diamond lanes that were once clear.
Hybrid motorists even have a term for the ill will: "Prius backlash."
"There's a mentality out there that we're a bunch of liberal hippies or we're trying to make some statement on the environment," said Travis Ruff, a real estate agent from Newbury Park who drives a Toyota Prius. "People are a lot less friendly than when I drove a Mercedes."
Caltrans, which has issued carpool-lane stickers for about 50,000 hybrid cars, plans to study the effect of hybrids on carpool lanes, starting with the 405, 210 and 105 freeways.
"There's not enough excess capacity to absorb the hybrids," said James Moore, director of USC's transportation engineering program. "I think the foreseeable outcome here is that the congestion advantage we traditionally attribute to [carpool] lanes will disappear."
A debate over carpool-lane congestion also is occurring in Virginia, which like California allows solo hybrid drivers to use the lanes. Last month, the Virginia Legislature placed curbs on hybrid drivers using the lanes in peak hours, requiring three or more people per vehicle, except for those grandfathered in.
The California Legislature approved the hybrids in carpool lanes as a way of encouraging the use of the low-emission, high-fuel-economy vehicles.
The law grants carpool-lane access to hybrids that get at least 45 mpg. So far, only the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic and Honda Insight qualify. The vehicles use small internal-combustion engines in combination with electric motors to increase gas mileage and reduce air pollution. Larger hybrid SUVs and luxury sedans with solo drivers are not allowed in carpool lanes.
From the beginning, the law has prompted complaints from carpoolers. But in recent months the criticism has grown louder as carpoolers accuse hybrid drivers of clogging the lanes, also known as high-occupancy vehicle lanes.
"Prius drivers tend to drive slower, and it makes the HOV lanes slower," said Theresa Poprac, who commutes on the 405 Freeway every morning from her home near Los Angeles International Airport to her job as head of sales for an educational software company in Costa Mesa.
The chatter is more biting in Internet car chat rooms, where some carpoolers have declared themselves "hybrid haters."
"These [drivers] barely go 65 mph and allow no one to pass them on the right," fumed one driver on the Edmunds.com car town hall. "Talk about road rage!"
"Go with the flow, or get the heck outta the way!!!," wrote another in support.
Beyond the driving habits of hybrid users, carpoolers gripe that all those Priuses are beginning to clog the diamond lanes. On some freeways, it's clear hybrid drivers are shaving substantial minutes off their commute by going in the carpool lane. But on others, that doesn't appear to be the case.
Mar Vista resident and hybrid owner Jan Strnand, who often drives the 405 Freeway to Carson, said he has not been impressed with the program.
"Much of the time, the HOV lanes and standard lanes are going at the same rates, so there's no advantage," said Strnand, a television writer. "You do the math . How many can you add [to the carpool lane] before it's more of a deterrent than it is a help?"
Assemblywoman Fran Pavley (D-Agoura Hills), who proposed the hybrid carpool-lane bill, said most hybrid users tell her they love the privilege. Still, she acknowledged that on some freeways, the time saved during rush hour has been a question something the state study will seek to sort out.
But the Prius backlash isn't confined to California's carpool lanes. On a recent episode of Comedy Central's "South Park," one of the cartoon characters persuades everyone in town to buy a hybrid car. But hybrids end up creating their own air pollution. Not smog. "Smug."
#2
04-10-2006, 01:26 PM
Re: Backlash against hybrids
As I've said in the past, I doubt I'd have much use for the HOV lane since everyone else probably would want to go faster.
#3
04-10-2006, 02:01 PM
Re: Backlash against hybrids
It's just as simple as driving in the non-HOV fast lane. On the few occasions I've found myself needing/wanting to drive in the HOV lane, I make sure I'm driving at the rate of the rest of the HOV lane. If I want to drive slow, then that's what the far right lane is for. If I want to bypass a traffic jam, then I accept that I'll be speeding up. Of course on the 405, usually traffic jams on all the non-HOV lanes means the HOV lane will be just as jammed up too, or at least significantly slower than normal. In CA, however, you're legally locked into the HOV lane until the next entrance/exit. So if someone is driving slower than you (sometimes busses, sometimes cars, and not always *just* hybrids), you're stuck, unless you cross the double-yellow and go around.
This sounds like just a puff piece. Anecdotally, most Prius drivers I see on my commute are flying by me at 70mph+. And the ones I see in HOV lanes are going just as fast too.
Rick
This sounds like just a puff piece. Anecdotally, most Prius drivers I see on my commute are flying by me at 70mph+. And the ones I see in HOV lanes are going just as fast too.
Rick
#4
04-10-2006, 03:01 PM
Re: Backlash against hybrids
If you're driving on the left or HOV, you ought to flow with traffic. Whether this piece is true or not, seems like hybrids are getting a very bad rap in the press. Not good.
#5
04-10-2006, 04:14 PM
Re: Backlash against hybrids
The only difference between a hybrid driving slowly in the HOV lane and a Taurus driving slowly in the HOV lane is that the hybrid makes a better target for criticism. Around here there's always someone holding up a string of traffic and they can be driving any make or model of vehicle. The haters tend to forget that there are other reasons to drive the limit besides fuel economy, such as getting busted by our beloved staties who just love to practice with their new LIDAR equipment. Not everyone wants to take that risk, and not everyone is attentive enough to chose the lane that they ought to.
#6
04-10-2006, 04:37 PM
Re: Backlash against hybrids
Originally Posted by HyMinded
In Carpool Lanes, Hybrids Find Cold Shoulders
Other motorists gripe that drivers of the fuel-efficient vehicles are slowing the HOV flow.
By Amanda Covarrubias, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer, April 10, 2006
When California allowed solo occupants of hybrid cars to use carpool lanes last year,. . .
Other motorists gripe that drivers of the fuel-efficient vehicles are slowing the HOV flow.
By Amanda Covarrubias, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer, April 10, 2006
When California allowed solo occupants of hybrid cars to use carpool lanes last year,. . .
In Huntsville, I've started enjoying the access and utility roads. The speeds are sedate, the drivers 'unrushed' and my MPG is shooting out the roof. Hop on the expressway? . . . No thanks!
I've got satellite radio, a calm attitude and slow speeds are no terror. Living South of the Mason Dixon Line, time hold no terrors . . . except in NASCAR and high-school football.
Bob Wilson
#7
04-10-2006, 04:59 PM
Re: Backlash against hybrids
I can understand peopel being upset at slow drivers in the carpool lane-- there is no excuse for driving slower than the flow, as in carpool lanes it's not possible to pass, it's similar to driving in a one-lane road, so if you're in there, out of courtesy one shouldn't block the way.
I also tend to agree that allowing hybrid cars into the carpool lane does somewhat go against the original purpose of the lanes -- to encourage carpooling in order to alleviate congestion. So I can understand why carpoolers woudl be even more upset upset at single-occupant vehicle driving in the carpool lane slow, especially if they don't allow peopel to pass (ie speed up when peopel try to pass by), that is definitely smugness.
I have never noticed the problem though (although I'm not sure if people even realize my car is a hybrid... though luckily I haven't been pulled over for that
)I see lots of hybrid drivers in the carpool lane (and occasionally use it myself) and never once have I seen one slowing down the flow of traffic. I've even pulled out of the carpool lane to allow faster hybrid drivers to pass me.
I've only seen (and been with) the slower hybrid drivers toward the right in the slow lanes, anyway.
While that's true, such peopel should not drive slower than the flow in a carpool lane which in essence is like a single lane without passing. Also, in most of the situations where traffic is congested enough to need to use the carpool lane, (ie when traffic is congested in general) the carpool lane is usually filled up enough so that it's at least steady, but still fairly slow (<55) -- perfect for mileage compared to the fairly poor mielage conditions on the rest of the road.
I also tend to agree that allowing hybrid cars into the carpool lane does somewhat go against the original purpose of the lanes -- to encourage carpooling in order to alleviate congestion. So I can understand why carpoolers woudl be even more upset upset at single-occupant vehicle driving in the carpool lane slow, especially if they don't allow peopel to pass (ie speed up when peopel try to pass by), that is definitely smugness.
I have never noticed the problem though (although I'm not sure if people even realize my car is a hybrid... though luckily I haven't been pulled over for that
)I see lots of hybrid drivers in the carpool lane (and occasionally use it myself) and never once have I seen one slowing down the flow of traffic. I've even pulled out of the carpool lane to allow faster hybrid drivers to pass me. I've only seen (and been with) the slower hybrid drivers toward the right in the slow lanes, anyway.
The haters tend to forget that there are other reasons to drive the limit besides fuel economy, such as getting busted by our beloved staties who just love to practice with their new LIDAR equipment. Not everyone wants to take that risk, and not everyone is attentive enough to chose the lane that they ought to.
Last edited by Double-Trinity; 04-10-2006 at 05:05 PM.
#8
04-11-2006, 03:37 PM
Re: Backlash against hybrids
Given all the news in the world today, the fact that this is worthy of an Editorial...oh never mind...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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EDITORIAL
LOS ANGELES TIMES
Life in the slow lane
April 11, 2006
IF CALIFORNIA WERE SERIOUS about using hybrid cars to promote energy conservation, it would ban them from the carpool lane, no matter the number of passengers they carry. After all, hybrids are thriftier on fuel in stop-and-go driving, not when flying down the highway.
But neither that nor any other sensible consideration drove Sacramento or Washington lawmakers' decision to allow the solo motorists in certain gas/electric vehicles to use carpool lanes. Hybrids like the Toyota Prius are just too efficient with fuel, too stingy with emissions in short, just too environmentally lovable not to be the object of some legislative kissy-face. It's all about feeling good, not doing good.
The idea behind the carpool law was to encourage sales of the most socially conscious hybrids, even though there already was a waiting list for them before the bill passed, as there is now. In fact, the law was written to encourage exactly as many hybrid sales as the automakers already were predicting. There may have been a sale or two since then to a driver who bought a hybrid solely for the carpool privileges. But if that driver hadn't bought it, another one would have.
Now the state will study whether the introduction so far of 50,000 more cars to the carpool lanes is slowing life down for the people who buddy up. Anecdotally, according to a recent report in The Times, the answer is yes. But that may simply reflect resentment from drivers who can't get into the lanes without a passenger. (Inevitably, that passenger is one who delivers blow-by-blow descriptions of his intense social interactions during a day of programming computers.)
Or maybe the resentment comes from that other socially conscious habit among hybrid drivers: keeping within the speed limit (yes, even in the carpool lane). It's so annoyingly safe and legal. The problem could be that, having been the object of so much public approval, hybrids were due for a comedown almost presidential in scope. Or it could simply be those glaringly self-satisfied little mustard-yellow carpool-lane access stickers that practically shout "neener-neener" as they slowly recede into the distance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REGISTRATION REQUIRED TO VIEW: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...ent-editorials
EDITORIAL
LOS ANGELES TIMES
Life in the slow lane
April 11, 2006
IF CALIFORNIA WERE SERIOUS about using hybrid cars to promote energy conservation, it would ban them from the carpool lane, no matter the number of passengers they carry. After all, hybrids are thriftier on fuel in stop-and-go driving, not when flying down the highway.
But neither that nor any other sensible consideration drove Sacramento or Washington lawmakers' decision to allow the solo motorists in certain gas/electric vehicles to use carpool lanes. Hybrids like the Toyota Prius are just too efficient with fuel, too stingy with emissions in short, just too environmentally lovable not to be the object of some legislative kissy-face. It's all about feeling good, not doing good.
The idea behind the carpool law was to encourage sales of the most socially conscious hybrids, even though there already was a waiting list for them before the bill passed, as there is now. In fact, the law was written to encourage exactly as many hybrid sales as the automakers already were predicting. There may have been a sale or two since then to a driver who bought a hybrid solely for the carpool privileges. But if that driver hadn't bought it, another one would have.
Now the state will study whether the introduction so far of 50,000 more cars to the carpool lanes is slowing life down for the people who buddy up. Anecdotally, according to a recent report in The Times, the answer is yes. But that may simply reflect resentment from drivers who can't get into the lanes without a passenger. (Inevitably, that passenger is one who delivers blow-by-blow descriptions of his intense social interactions during a day of programming computers.)
Or maybe the resentment comes from that other socially conscious habit among hybrid drivers: keeping within the speed limit (yes, even in the carpool lane). It's so annoyingly safe and legal. The problem could be that, having been the object of so much public approval, hybrids were due for a comedown almost presidential in scope. Or it could simply be those glaringly self-satisfied little mustard-yellow carpool-lane access stickers that practically shout "neener-neener" as they slowly recede into the distance.
#9
04-11-2006, 07:46 PM
Re: Backlash against hybrids
Hi folks,
The nearest HOV lanes are in Nashville, 120 miles away. So in one respect, I don't have 'a dog in this fight.' But I do have a choice between taking the Parkway or the access road next to the Parkway.
This evening, I once again took the access road, 30 mph, that runs along side the 50+ mph expressway. Stopped at one of the traffic lights, I was next to a double-cab pickup and looked down at his tail pipe . . . and started laughing. When I parked, my MFD showed 68+ MPG. I could have jumped on the Parkway and gotten home a few minutes quicker but barely 60 MPG.
So when I hear that single occupant hybrids might no longer get to use the car pool lanes, I have to laugh. Our hybrid-electric cars excel 'in the mess.' We sit there quietly chalking up higher and higher MPG and someone thinks "We'll show them . . ." right!
In "Song of the South," Bre Rabbit says, "Please eats me an' don't throws me in the briar traffic jam!"
Bob Wilson
The nearest HOV lanes are in Nashville, 120 miles away. So in one respect, I don't have 'a dog in this fight.' But I do have a choice between taking the Parkway or the access road next to the Parkway.
This evening, I once again took the access road, 30 mph, that runs along side the 50+ mph expressway. Stopped at one of the traffic lights, I was next to a double-cab pickup and looked down at his tail pipe . . . and started laughing. When I parked, my MFD showed 68+ MPG. I could have jumped on the Parkway and gotten home a few minutes quicker but barely 60 MPG.
So when I hear that single occupant hybrids might no longer get to use the car pool lanes, I have to laugh. Our hybrid-electric cars excel 'in the mess.' We sit there quietly chalking up higher and higher MPG and someone thinks "We'll show them . . ." right!
In "Song of the South," Bre Rabbit says, "Please eats me an' don't throws me in the briar traffic jam!"
Bob Wilson
#10
04-12-2006, 06:58 AM
Re: Backlash against hybrids
Originally Posted by HyMinded
Hybrids like the Toyota Prius are just too efficient with fuel, too stingy with emissions in short, just too environmentally lovable not to be the object of some legislative kissy-face.
I think the backlash has more to do with allowing single occupant vehicles in the HOV lane. I think the fact that those vehicles also happen to be hybrids provides a convenient bulls-eye. I see slow drivers in the HOV lane all the time - none are hybrids (we're not allowed here). Yet you don't see these kinds of articles about them...
