While I don't agree with the tone of the article, it does emphasize the point that any changes in HOV lanes triggers much gnashing of teeth here in California, particularly LA. If anybody here lives in L.A. and remembers, HOV lanes were implemented years ago between West LA and Downtown LA. The noisy outcry has put politicians in fear of reinstating this measure. Instead, we have the "rideshare Thursday." Yeah.

Wishing everyone here a peaceful Passover and/or Easter for this weekend.

 

I had joked that over Lent I'd give up air. If we are not careful, we will all give up air.

 

Sorry, Double Trinity, but I just have to disagree with you. '...no excuse for driving slower than the flow,' you say? That's simply not true. As others have already pointed out, there are lots of very good reasons to drive slowly, and that includes 'more slowly than the idiot behind you panting to get around.' Those reasons include not wanting to get speeding tickets, wanting to drive more efficiently, and wanting to get around traffic jams.

I fully believe in driver courtesy, but I do not generally think that I have to be as accomodating to any moron who rides my bumper (who is, in my opinion, being incredibly rude and therefore less deserving of my courtesy) as you seem to think is necessary. Just so you know, I generally drive in the middle or right lane, unless I need to make left turns. I'm all for safety- I'll let anyone pass me if they can do so safely, and, most of the time, I have no choice about it anyway. In fact, most people want to cut by so close (usually without signalling) that it's dangerous. Sound courteous to you?

Also, you're missing something big here: when there's no passing, the people who try to crowd you to make you speed up don't do so just when I'm going slowly. They do it no matter how fast I'm going, up to the speed limit and far, far past it.

Speed limits aren't suggestions- they're LAWS. Even if they're laws that most people don't take at all seriously, I'm not going to go around breaking them the way other people do by speeding any more than is necessary just because 'everybody is doing it.' That's the worst and most juvenile kind of peer pressure. 'Everybody' may not mind getting a lot of speeding tickets, either, but I do. There are a lot of traffic cops in my area- there's one spot on my commute where the speed limit drops from 45 to 35 just at a police station where I see people being pulled over all the time, but even that doesn't stop the clog of traffic passing me at over 50 mph as I slow there every morning, in the right lane out of three. How am *I* the problem in that situation, I ask you?

I guess the main response I have to your comments, in the end, is that if people want us slow drivers, hybrid or no, carpool lane or no, to show them 'courtesy' by driving with the flow, then they should show us the same courtesy in other ways, by not tailgating, by signalling, by not cutting us off or passing too closely, and by not being so insulting, as in the article at the beginning of this thread. Oh wait- no, that's not a fair comparison- most of the things they're doing are ALSO ILLEGAL.

 

My two cents .... 3 cheers for LeahBeatle


I am in complete agreement with every word.

Here in Dallas no one is driving slower at all.
I stay in the right or middle lane as well and
drivers still run up on me and then whip
around me at the last half second.

I would only add that it is the HOV Lane,
not the NASCAR Lane or the I'm Late For
Work So Get Out Of My Way Lane.

 

Great entry Leah . People breaking the law deserve a lot of things... respect or courtesy don't come to mind.

 

First of all, leahbeatle said it very well! Highways and the internet oftentimes remind me of the old Wild West - pushy/abrasive people with no respect for the law or courtsey. When you are on a six-lane freeway on the rightmost lane, and someone blasts by you on the shoulder, is it really something I did?

Glad a neighbor is vouching for the traffic here! I've been here since the 80's and honestly think Dallas has always had this "hustle mentality" that endorses aggressive driving.

 

Thanks, guys! Good to know I'm not alone!

 

I'm glad to see the mature and well-reasoned replies here, even if people don't agree on some of the issues. I'm in the *road less traveled* camp and always try to take the more fun scenic route, even if it takes longer. Life is too short to get caught up in the rat race, and it would seem that civility has been abandoned in our culture. I mostly blame Dr. Spock, even though our parents were trying to do the right thing. He even admitted his theories didn't work before he died. Now the kids raised by the Dr. Spock generation are even worse than their parents.

Now it seems it's more screw you, get out of my way, nobody matters but me. Sad state of affairs if you ask me. It's bad enough around here, and I don't live anywhere near any freeways! Why can't people just leave each other alone and simply try to get along? Editorials like this one would seem to only add fuel to the fire and incite others unnecessarily.

 

I should have qualified my statement. I didn't mean to refer to the "flow" as the unusually agressive drivers who zip around, ride people's bumpers, and pass people at 90mph+, I mean the average speed maintained by the normal drivers on the road. If the aggressive types are behind me, if I'm already the fastest speed reasonably safe, try to tailgate me, I won't just keep speeding up, but I won't do anything "competetive" like speed up to block them from passing me, either.

The article referred to hybrid drivers going 60-65 when traffic could flow in the carpool lanes at around 70-75 more naturally, who would only accelerate to block people from passing them. That is inconsiderate, though to be fair, lots of people do this, not just hybrid drivers. Hybrid drivers are probably just noticed more. (I actually have never seen a hybrid driver do this).

I have seen this regularly though from certain buses coming from Mexico -- they will cut into the carpool lane going 55, actually forcing the people behind (read: me) to brake in the process, when they could remain in the standard lanes which are flowing at a steady 55. The carpool which could safely accomodate about 70mph in these conditions. This generates massive gaps and creates all sorts of interactions when carpool lane "openings" occur as people in the carpool lanes maneuver to pass, and peple in the standard lanes cut into the carpool lanes to fill the "gap". These lane changes in high enough volume contibute to the overall slowdown of the flow of traffic, wasting lots of fuel in the process as many, many people must vary speed. This is what I meant by "disrupting the flow of traffic"

In cases where the freeway is actually very congested, the carpool lane is almost never able to flow faster than 60mph anyway, as maintaining a large speed differential (>15mph) is nearly impossible with people merging to and from the standard lanes, anyway.

Completely agreed though. I was more referring to driving at speeds that would inhibit the average driver (most of whom don't tailgate in retailation-- they'll just pass when convenient) not just the "speeders" that dart around without signalling, cutting it close left and right.

 

That isn't exactly true. The Taurus driving slowly in the HOV lane is carrying at least two additional people. There is another factor as well, the Taurus driving in the car pool lane is unlikely to be driving as slow as the hybrid driver. Let's face it, the average hybrid driver is likely to be driving slower than the average non-hybrid driver. One can not overestimate the effect that the immediate MPG feedback does to one's driving style. I've only had mine 2 days and it's made a lot of difference.

More generally, I think giving hybrid drivers HOV access is wrongheaded. Here's why. The HOV lane is designed to provide incentives to people to car pool so as to reduce overall traffic congestion and fuel consumption. If by giving hybrid drivers an option to use the HOV lane, it reduces the value of that incentive by reducing the average lane speed in the HOV lane by introducing more speed conscious hybrid drivers and by increasing the volume of cars in those lanes. Not to mention that access to the HOV lane for single drivers may induce some people, at the margin, to forego the use of public transportation and opt instead to drive.

Add this to the fact that hybrids, relatively speaking, consume far less gasoline than non-hybrid vehicles in stop and go traffic and thus should be the last vehicle considered triaged from slow moving traffic and you have a policy that is wrongheaded all the way around.

Besides, is there a better way to make people aware of the technology than to be part of a carpool anyway?

Norris