Which is true, I'm afraid... we Canadians lose the most money when it comes to buying a hybrid car. The costs are indeed too high BUT sooner or later when they become more affordable then maybe things will change?

http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/...tid=57429&pg=1


edit: Then again these guys don't drive like we do

one more edit: they should really do a study on USED hybrid cars. I mean if you pick one up for a really good deal then wouldn't that save you money then?

 

But then you'd have to compare to some other used car, so depends...

But I have to agree, we paid $30k for our 2001 Prius, and that was a ton of cash, considering our previous car (what I drive now) was a $10k base-model Colt that served us perfectly fine, although is a real gas pig for it's size and displacement.

Our primary concerns were: burning less gasoline and of course the (at the time) extremely low emissions rating. Paying the extra money for those functions was worth it, but if we could have got a less equipped version, I'm sure we would have. Power windows and remote controlled door locks are handy, but I'd rather pay less for less gizmos, rather than pay less for worse fuel economy, if that makes sense. It was never about saving money by spending less on gas, if that was the primary motivating factor we probably would have got a stripped Echo, but that was never even a consideration.

The sad thing is that since 2001 the Canadian dollar has risen a huge amount (or the US dollar fell, depending on your perspective) so you'd think they would be cheaper, at least comparing US/Can prices, but no! The basic Prius is still $30k and most people want the airbags, so you have to go with the second package that includes other stuff, and then all of a sudden it's a $40k car... Hopefully the prices will be corrected, but I'm not holding my breath.

Honda seems to have adjusted their prices, what is wrong with Toyota? Probably in no hurry to rake in less cash, since they are selling well.

 

True perhaps, but most of us still have to own a car to function in this current society. I'll probably have to drive a vehicle until it's not physically possible for me to do so.

So whatever the type of vehicle, we are all doomed to shelling out hard earned cash to haul our butts around. All I know is that my wife's accord and my old Maxima are/were 2x more expensive to operate than my HCH. and I have a full warranty on the HCH so I'm not anticipating any major repair costs for most of the life of the car. My only expected costs will be required maint items which are probably not much more expensive than a normal vehicle.

In just under a year of use, I've used $536 US in fuel vs $1,262 or more I would have paid for the Maxima using prem fuel. So I saved $726 in fuel plus the $2,000 tax deduction that probably amounted to about a $700 tax credit. Total savings for the year are about $1,426 US. One more year and my so-called hybrid premium is history....????

IMHO, I know I'm comparing apples to oranges (HCH vs Maxima) but that's the real life story that most people will share. If everyone that owned a non-hypermile vehicle traded up to some sort of hybrid, they could also realize some savings per year in fuel costs, not to mention the pollution factor. It may take some folks more or less time to recop the hybrid premium but it will happen. Then when you trade it in or sell it, the resale $$$ are higher so you gain at the end of use cycle as well. I think it's a no brainer....

 

Yeah yeah yeah... The hybrid-haters' old drum beat of "You don't recoup the cost of investment" is just plain BORING.

How long does it take someone to "break even" on buying a "turbo" option?

How long does it take someone to "break even" on buying a V8 instead of a V6?

How long does it take someone to "break even" on buying a diesel engine instead of gasoline?

The hybrid propulsion system is simply an *option* that some people are willing to *pay* for. It's as simple as that.

Personally, I get a little tired of justify my choice of car to people who consider a Cadilac Escalade to be a "compact car".

The fact that I've enjoyed driving my car for 3.5 years is the only definition of "value" I need.

 

Call this an intangible, but I know I've had fewer repairs and traffic tickets - at least $1000 saved.

 

Interesting article in CR, thanks for posting it. In general I tend to trust their analysis in this and other areas, and I believe that the people who work for CR tend to be pro-hybrid, rather than anti.

So this article just emphasizes what I believe has always been true of hybrids: you don't buy them for the money savings, you buy they to use less gasoline, ease our dependence on oil, clean up the environment, etc.

I could have bought a regular honda civic and saved some of my cash.
But instead, I bought a hybrid, and saved some of my planet.

That's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

 

I totally agree. It seems to be "open season" on Hybrid Owners.

When I got my last car none of my friends had any negative comments. It was OK to pay $50k for a compact car that gave me 22MPG, produced 8.4 tons of greenhouse gas emissions and only took premium gas.

Now that I am getting an HCH that costs half the price of my current car, produces less than half the greenhouse emissions (3.7 tons) and uses regular gas (12% cheaper) everyone feels the need to share his/her negative opinions.

Most people drive cars with excesive capacity and power. This would be fine if the only cost was to their own pockets. Unfortunately there is a higher cost to the environment and our planet for that excess. There are 3 options: ignore the issue, justify our choices or take some action to change our choices.

Hybrid-phobic people are trying to justify their choice by ridiculous means like saying that there is no greenhouse concern, hybrids are not efficient and not worth the expense, future fuel options will be better, gas prices will fall, etc.

 

While it is definitely true that these cars aren't cost effective right now in terms of paying for themselves in fuel savings, I don't believe that indicates that hybrid technology will die off or not be cost effective in the future for this reason: hybrid, even with tax credit, cost more than a conventional version of the car because consumers are paying over MSRP to buy them! The demand for the cars huge, and I expect that to settle down long term.

Also, one of the things that actually bothers me somewhat about hybrids is that with some smarter software algorithms, and a bit more driver control over the Gas/Electric power ratio, they could be much much more efficient than they now already are-- software should be the easiest place to make improvements, yet the automakers don't seem intent on making them there.

Agreed, although I don't know of very many peopel suggesting gas prices will fall long term... probably the largest factor in the recent price increases has been increasing demand in China, a trend which will continue for years, while production levels will likely remain about the same. As for hybrids not being worth it, I expect that to change over time with economy of scale and the trend of batteries and ultracapacitors getting cheaper (that there is the bulk of the expense)

As far as improved fuels in the future, hybrid technolgy and alternative fuels are not at all mutually exclusive, it complements technology such as biodiesel, or even fuel cell fine. I don't know why everyone acts as if the two are mutually exclusive. Also, in general there seems to be a trend, when comparing an existing technology to a future alternative technology, to assume the current technology will remain the same. For example I bet both the ICE and hybrid systems will improve so much that by the time fuel cell cars are technologically possible, they'll be practically inferior to the hybridized ICE systems.

 

The thing is, it really depends on your situation. As I've said many times here and abroad, being Ford A plan, I paid 28K for my AWD loaded FEH. Had I not gotten it, I would've gotten a loaded Escape for 25K. In 8 months, I've already saved $800 over the conventional Escape in fuel costs. (And a laughable $1400 over the '95 Explorer I had) Over ten years or so of ownership, I believe I'll recoup that 3K initial price difference in fuel savings. Not to mention with Oil changes (10K instead of 5K), free tickets to the Auto Show , and other extras like that.

As I always say, it may not be for everyone yet, and each situation is different, but to make a blanket statement that no one can come out financially ahead for this option is incorrect. I wouldn't mind it if the press ran stories of how hybrids may not be for you, if they included proper research, but to say, no one comes out ahead with a hybrid is irksomely false.

 

A neighbor who owns a Navigator asked me "How long will it take for the hybridization option to pay for itself?"

My response, It'll pay for itself much quicker than your options will pay for themselves."