Diesel or Hybrid or Petrol?
#1
11-26-2007, 10:31 PM
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Diesel or Hybrid or Petrol?
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_109237/article.html
I am a fan of Julian Edgar whom I've found to be honest, ethical and quite willing to admit mistakes with a deft sense of humor. Soon after I learned about his magazine, I subscribed and continue to recommend as one of the best collections of hard, automotive technology and empirical knowledge. So when he wrote this piece, I was already inclined to believe him.
Edgar makes one pithy observation that I agree with,"Unless aftermarket manufacturers take up the challenge to produce OE direct fit batteries at reasonable prices (and it’s quite likely that in the future they will), or car manufacturers dramatically drop the price of new batteries, then hybrids will adopt orphan status as they get old." IMHO, he has identified an opportunity that is unlikely to be picked up by the OEMs. We're going to have to solve this one ourselves.
It is an excellent read and once you subscribe, all of the past articles are available. It is one of the best values on the net.
Bob Wilson
I’ve just stepped out of my 1995 Peugeot 405 SRDT turbo diesel sedan, having driven it 800 kilometres in two days, making a holiday trip loaded with a bootful of luggage and my wife and 3-year-old (no, they weren’t in the boot).
When I arrived home, I saw sitting the driveway my 2001 Honda Insight hybrid and my wife’s 1998 Toyota Prius hybrid – the latter’s the one with the defective high voltage battery. As a motoring journalist, I have also driven current model Volkswagen, Peugeot, Audi and Hyundai diesels, the current model Prius (in fact I drove that car across half of Australia and back) and the Honda Civic Hybrid. So, unlike most who seem to write on this topic, I have personal ownership experience of hybrid and diesel cars as well as test car experience.
When I arrived home, I saw sitting the driveway my 2001 Honda Insight hybrid and my wife’s 1998 Toyota Prius hybrid – the latter’s the one with the defective high voltage battery. As a motoring journalist, I have also driven current model Volkswagen, Peugeot, Audi and Hyundai diesels, the current model Prius (in fact I drove that car across half of Australia and back) and the Honda Civic Hybrid. So, unlike most who seem to write on this topic, I have personal ownership experience of hybrid and diesel cars as well as test car experience.
Edgar makes one pithy observation that I agree with,"Unless aftermarket manufacturers take up the challenge to produce OE direct fit batteries at reasonable prices (and it’s quite likely that in the future they will), or car manufacturers dramatically drop the price of new batteries, then hybrids will adopt orphan status as they get old." IMHO, he has identified an opportunity that is unlikely to be picked up by the OEMs. We're going to have to solve this one ourselves.
It is an excellent read and once you subscribe, all of the past articles are available. It is one of the best values on the net.
Bob Wilson
#2
11-27-2007, 09:41 PM
Re: Diesel or Hybrid or Petrol?
I agree wholeheartedly with your "plucking" of a particularly pithy comment (although there were many in this article). My one and only reservation about owning/recommending a hybrid is the eventual $$$$ battery replacement.
Mr. Edgar wrote a truly excellent, simple, down-to-earth article. Everyone ON EARTH should read this one! Yeah, really.
Good work Bob, and thanks for sharing.
Mr. Edgar wrote a truly excellent, simple, down-to-earth article. Everyone ON EARTH should read this one! Yeah, really.
Good work Bob, and thanks for sharing.
#3
11-28-2007, 12:35 PM
Re: Diesel or Hybrid or Petrol?
Not only an aftermarket replacement opportunity. Apparently Toyota is looking at it from a service angle as well:
http://hybridreview.blogspot.com/200...y-to-help.html
I can live with 25% of 3 big ones or so every 80K miles.
http://hybridreview.blogspot.com/200...y-to-help.html
If the battery does have an issue after the warranty has run out, Toyota says they have a new lower cost solution, that of reconditioning the battery. If something goes wrong with a battery pack, the issue is probably within only one of the 28 modules that make up the whole battery.
So, according to Jim Gatzke of Toyota's National Alternative Fuel Vehicle Service and Support group "The module must be replaced with one that matches the chemistry of the other 27 modules." A match is created by harvesting from a battery pack from another vehicle with similar age and mileage. Once replaced, Gatzke believes the 'reconditioned' battery pack may last another six years.
Toyota says reconditioning the battery will cost about one-fourth that of replacing.
So, according to Jim Gatzke of Toyota's National Alternative Fuel Vehicle Service and Support group "The module must be replaced with one that matches the chemistry of the other 27 modules." A match is created by harvesting from a battery pack from another vehicle with similar age and mileage. Once replaced, Gatzke believes the 'reconditioned' battery pack may last another six years.
Toyota says reconditioning the battery will cost about one-fourth that of replacing.
Last edited by FastMover; 11-28-2007 at 12:38 PM.
#4
12-02-2007, 10:00 PM
Re: Diesel or Hybrid or Petrol?
It occurs to me that the shockingly high price of battery replacement is completely unnecessary. The battery innards are really an array of small (and otherwise ordinary) rechargeable cells. It seems to me that it should be possible to diagnose and find out which cells are sub-par in a battery pack and have just those cells replaced without having to replace the entire system.
I wonder how long it will take before battery packs are actually _serviced_ instead of just replaced.
I wonder how long it will take before battery packs are actually _serviced_ instead of just replaced.
#5
12-02-2007, 10:24 PM
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Re: Diesel or Hybrid or Petrol?
It occurs to me that the shockingly high price of battery replacement is completely unnecessary. The battery innards are really an array of small (and otherwise ordinary) rechargeable cells. It seems to me that it should be possible to diagnose and find out which cells are sub-par in a battery pack and have just those cells replaced without having to replace the entire system.
I wonder how long it will take before battery packs are actually _serviced_ instead of just replaced.
I wonder how long it will take before battery packs are actually _serviced_ instead of just replaced.
Bob Wilson
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