"Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
#1
11-14-2006, 02:13 PM
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 955
"Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
http://autos.yahoo.com/green_center-article_110/
I came across this article today:
I found the summation of the pluses and minuses (and there are some big minuses) of diesel to be interesting. One particularly salient bit reads as follows:
Any thoughts? Any diesel fans? Foes?
I came across this article today:
Diesel - Overview
Diesel vehicles now account for nearly half of all new vehicle sales in Europe. In some European countries (such as France), diesel vehicles account for as much as 70 percent of new car sales. Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?
Diesel vehicles now account for nearly half of all new vehicle sales in Europe. In some European countries (such as France), diesel vehicles account for as much as 70 percent of new car sales. Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?
...diesel vehicles attain better fuel economy than their gasoline counterparts. This fuel economy advantage is enhanced by the fact that a gallon of diesel fuel contains about 10% more energy than a gallon of gasoline. These two factors help modern direct-injection diesels achieve roughly 50% higher fuel economy than their gasoline counterparts. For example, a European model Honda Accord with a 2.2 liter i-CTDi diesel engine is rated at 43.3 MPG, 49 percent higher than the rating of a Honda Accord with a 2.4 liter gasoline engine. The Camry Hybrid is rated at 39 MPG, 10 percent lower than the diesel Accord.
#2
11-14-2006, 02:53 PM
Re: "Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
I am a "clean diesel fan" and EXTREME "dirty diesel foe."
Apparently, this Accord diesel engine is one pretty amazing piece of machinery. we will have to wait until Honda gets a USA version and the EPA tests it to see how close it approaches PZEV as one of the cleanest vehicles you can buy.
Once THAT happens, one of these would be a decent alternative to a TCH.
My dream car is a DIESEL/ELECTRIC hybrid 5-passenger sedan rated at 70+ combined MPG and AT-PZEV from the EPA.
Someone makes one of those, and I move both Heaven and Earf to get one in my driveway.
Apparently, this Accord diesel engine is one pretty amazing piece of machinery. we will have to wait until Honda gets a USA version and the EPA tests it to see how close it approaches PZEV as one of the cleanest vehicles you can buy.
Once THAT happens, one of these would be a decent alternative to a TCH.
My dream car is a DIESEL/ELECTRIC hybrid 5-passenger sedan rated at 70+ combined MPG and AT-PZEV from the EPA.
Someone makes one of those, and I move both Heaven and Earf to get one in my driveway.
#3
11-14-2006, 03:45 PM
Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Two miles N of the technology 'center-of-the-world' in 1903, on the Outer Banks of NC
Posts: 205
Re: "Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
Honda has to get the diesel Accord here quickly before the TCH takes all the accolades and press from Honda. Honda covets the 'most fuel efficient' auto maker title and it's had to pull back on the Insight and HAH leaving all the good press to Toyota.
This new diesel Accord will be their answer to the TCH as the diesel Ody will likely arrive at the same time as the hybrid Sienna and the diesel MDX will answer the HH/400h. The strategies seem clear. Midsized diesels for Honda and midsized hybrids for Toyota. Let the market decide.
Toyota cannot let HOnda's new technology go unanswered either. The new Prius in Oct 2008 has to be that much better ( 20%? ) than what's on the road now and the cost has to be lower than at present. This is just to keep the lead with the Honda diesels being introduced.
After the acceptance of the new 2009 Prius then that technology can be migrated to the TCH, HH, and TSH - say in 2010 - upping the ante again.
This new diesel Accord will be their answer to the TCH as the diesel Ody will likely arrive at the same time as the hybrid Sienna and the diesel MDX will answer the HH/400h. The strategies seem clear. Midsized diesels for Honda and midsized hybrids for Toyota. Let the market decide.
Toyota cannot let HOnda's new technology go unanswered either. The new Prius in Oct 2008 has to be that much better ( 20%? ) than what's on the road now and the cost has to be lower than at present. This is just to keep the lead with the Honda diesels being introduced.
After the acceptance of the new 2009 Prius then that technology can be migrated to the TCH, HH, and TSH - say in 2010 - upping the ante again.
Last edited by kdhspyder; 11-14-2006 at 03:47 PM.
#4
11-14-2006, 06:35 PM
Re: "Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
A big plus to deisels:
The more clean minded diesel owners out there, the more the US will focus on biodiesel. Sure, the exhaust smells like hamburgers, but there are no, repeat NO sulfates in a pure biodiesel engine. Though, most biodiesel users mix with regular diesel, this is not needed. The University I attend uses biodiesel in every diesel burning vehicle they own. Personally, I own an HCH-II, but would seriously consider getting a diesel VW or most definitely a diesel Accord if biodiesel were made readily available.
The more clean minded diesel owners out there, the more the US will focus on biodiesel. Sure, the exhaust smells like hamburgers, but there are no, repeat NO sulfates in a pure biodiesel engine. Though, most biodiesel users mix with regular diesel, this is not needed. The University I attend uses biodiesel in every diesel burning vehicle they own. Personally, I own an HCH-II, but would seriously consider getting a diesel VW or most definitely a diesel Accord if biodiesel were made readily available.
#6
11-14-2006, 09:06 PM
Re: "Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
Like hybrid technology, give clean diesels a chance....
#7
11-15-2006, 07:45 AM
Re: "Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
Tim,
By no means is hamburger exhaust a bad thing, I have, however, gained weight being around such fumes. Think of it this way, the campus bus goes by, and for some reason all you can think of are McDonald's fries. Temptation is so sneaky!
By no means is hamburger exhaust a bad thing, I have, however, gained weight being around such fumes. Think of it this way, the campus bus goes by, and for some reason all you can think of are McDonald's fries. Temptation is so sneaky!
Re: "Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
#9
11-16-2006, 09:03 AM
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 955
Re: "Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
Originally Posted by tbaleno
It's a conspiracy by the fast food companies and the automakers I tell you!!!
#10
11-16-2006, 11:11 AM
Re: "Are diesel vehicles a viable alternative to hybrids?"
The obvious answer is to put a diesel in for the ICE and use a hybrid-electric drive. This is not an 'either' / 'or' but more correctly, an 'and'. Heck, there already are diesel-electric drive systems in wide spread use, they are called trains.
Bob Wilson
Bob Wilson
