I read the article and am still confused as to where the extra cost of maintenance is?

Has anyone needed to do *ANY* maintenance on their hybrid components? If anything, we don't have as high a brake maintenance as non hybrids and are much less likely to have issues with the HSD than an automatic transmission.

 

Interesting article, but very opinionated and has a lot of inaccuraces. Suggest you go to the library and get a copy of the 2012 Consumer Reports annual auto edition where they reviewed the various versions of the Camry. The 2012 Camry Hybrid XLE was the highest rated car in the family sedan category.

 

mine is 2007 camry hybrid, bought brand new in august 2006. it is brought from Japan = OFCOURSE TO the dealer!

is mine XLE or?

LE is the non hybrid right?

whats difference between TCH and TCH xle?

 

For the 2012 year you can get both the hybrid and non-hybrid in LE or XLE trim. The only significant difference is that the XLE has a few more bells and whistles. Same basic car. In the hybrid version the LE is rated for slightly higher mileage, probably due to the smaller tires (16" vs 17").

You should see LE or XLE somewhere on the outside of the car trim.

 

And I just found another high mpg vehicle for those who drive alone all the time and don't want hybrid hassle.

Toyota IQ. Apparently, sits 3 1/2 adults quite well, fits LARGE male in the front easy, and does 57mpg. I watched them on Fifth Gear yesterday night, guy who tested is shy of my size just a bit.

 

The two hybrid-specific items that require maintenance:

1. The hybrid cooling system - this is the second coolant reservoir, hoses, and little radiator to cool the PSD and inverter. Cost to change is <$100, it uses same coolant as primary.
2. Brake controller - this is one I would consider a weak point for 10+year ownership lifecycle, as is is significant hassle and cost to change/flush the brake fluid, and has proven to be a bit of a durability problem at 100K+ miles, most likely due to brake fluid contamination/degradation. Not that the conventional Camry ABS pumps don't have same sorts of risks, but the TCH brake controller flush process requires Toyota scan tool - read $$$ at the dealer to flush the brakes.

Against that, look at the items removed:

1. More complex belt system - HSD belt drives only the water pump, and on the '12 and beyond that was eliminated. I'd look at the lightly loaded belt as having 10+ year lifespan, compared to 5-6 on conventional serpentine belt that drives the PS and AC.
2. Conventional automatic, with built-in wear point of engagement clutches. TCH PSD uses same fluid, but it has no built-in clutch mechanism that would contribute grit to the system and heat the fluid. I'd consider both candidates for 5 year change cycles, simply to ensure top fluid quality.
3. Brakes. Due to regen, brake pad life is at least 2X the ICE-only car. Conservative driving gets rid of virtually all wear, as friction brakes are used at only at very low speeds.
4. ICE wear/more run time for high city miles. The TCH ICE does not run when stopped in traffic most of the time - the ICE-only one do. With city drive cycle, that can be a 20% or more reduction in operating hours. Lower operating hours = higher useful work life.

Now, for most Toyotas, the major engine failure from wear-out is very rare; most will get fail due to seal and oil quality issues. Older gen Camry have the engines still going strong with 250K+ miles. Most get scrapped due to ancillary systems being to costly to repair, or failures due to neglect (e.g. overheat due to cooling system neglect, running low on oil, etc.)

 

Frodo has given you some good pointers. Here are a few more to consider. I generally keep cars beyond 10 years and 100,000 miles, and tend to find some of the weak points. Some I've kept much longer.

1. Alternators are often a problem. Brushes wear out, bearings wear out, or the bridge rectifier fails. The TCH has heavy duty motor generators. They are covered by an extended warranty, and I suspect are much less likely to fail than a standard alternator.

2. Same issue with starter motors. They tend to be a bit more reliable than alternators, but still fail in the motor (brushes) or the Bendix disengagement gear mechanism fails. The TCH again uses the main heavy duty motor generators to start. Covered by extended warranty, and I suspect are going to outlast most owners. The MG's are direct connected and there is no Bendix or clutch to fail.

3. Hybrids do most of their braking with the front wheels. With a front wheel drive the driving is also done with the fronts. This means the fronts wear a lot faster, and tire rotation is critical. Not a big cost, but must be done more often if you want to keep tread depth uniform.

4. I always estimate batteries to last about 6 years in a conventional vehicle. They are used for starting and with winter temperatures see a pretty service life. The TCH 12 volt only runs small 12 V accessories like the radio, control system, and headlights. And the battery is being charged almost all the time it is being used. Short story, is that it seems a pretty mild service. On the other hand it is located in the trunk and a special non gassing battery is used. When they do fail, which I would guess should be closer to 10 years, they are more expensive due to the non gassing design. Probably cost $200-$250 to replace.

Hope that helps some...

 

Ron does make an excellent point on the difference between conventional alternator and starter and the TCH MG. The MG1 and MG2 are both synchronous A/C motor/generators, and as such don't have a DC motor's commutator or brushes, both of which are wear points. Now, the inverter does present a 'single point of failure' in this sort of system, but doesn't have moving parts - except in the critical-to-life cooling system.

The big thing that is a weakness on the TCh is the cost of replacement parts from Toyota, and some packaging that leaves the expen$ive components in a relatively exposed location - a good hit on left front corner will take out $8K worth of inverter and PSD. That sort of packaging converts a $5K wreck into a $15K wreck, and will lead to 6-7 year old TCH to the boneyard.