Media about Toyota UA
#21
Re: Media about Toyota UA
While in CA they said that the CHP officer tried turning the car off, but we don't know if he held it long enough, or just quickly pressed it.
Some of us find it a little hard to believe that a 20 year veteran of the CHP wouldn't have tried everything imaginable in that 20 minute wild ride.
Some of us find it a little hard to believe that a 20 year veteran of the CHP wouldn't have tried everything imaginable in that 20 minute wild ride.
Most will quickly press the button, then not getting the car to turn off, will press it a second time, and then assume the car can't be powered down with the button and then try a different option.
I don't care if it's Mario Andretti or Henry Ford III (IV?), no one will intuitively hold the button for three seconds. It is not common knowledge and few, if any, will spend the time to learn every aspect of their cars, including this minor, easy to overlook, task.
Last edited by haroldo; 08-12-2010 at 11:19 AM.
#22
Re: Media about Toyota UA
Lets break these down into separate items.
Saylor (CHP officer), had a vehicle where the wrong floor mats were installed which caused pedal entrapment.
- from http://autos.aol.com/article/toyota-...saylor-family/
"...When the San Diego County Sheriff's Department Report No. 09056454.1 became public information last week, we learned that the very same car that Mark Saylor drove on August 28 had been reported as having unintended acceleration problems.
Earlier in the week the Saylor family died, Frank Bernard and his wife picked up the very same loaner vehicle -- a white Lexus ES350 with California dealer plate 6DRT323. In a police report, Bernard told the San Diego Sheriffs that that as he was merging onto a freeway, he saw a truck nearby and accelerated briskly to get in front of it. Once in front of the truck, he let his foot off the accelerator. The vehicle "kept accelerating on its own, to about 80-85 MPH."
Bernard said he stepped on the brakes and tried to lift up on the accelerator with his right foot. He got over to the shoulder, was able to slow the car to 50-60 MPH, but was unable to stop the car's ignition (the Lexus has a push-button start system that requires a three-second hold to turn off the car). Trying everything he could, he eventually placed the car into neutral. The engine "made a very loud, whining, racing sound" but the car stopped.
He was safe.
Bernard noticed the floor mat had become stuck under the accelerator pedal. After he cleared the mat, he drove normally, although likely a little shaken..."
Just because a person is in law enforcement does not keep them from making mistakes or panicking or making bad decisions.
The Sikes episode left a lot of questions and he didn't help his credibility with some of the interviews he gave. Worst of all ( http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toy...l-fumento.html ) "...Over a 23-minute period the 911 dispatcher repeatedly pleaded with Sikes to shift into neutral. He simply refused and then essentially stopped talking to her except to say that he thought he could smell his brakes burning..."
On both of these I question if either of the drivers tried everything to stop their cars.
And Mrs. Smith. From http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...225_403524.htm
"
Her local Lexus dealer examined her car and could find nothing. Then, as Ms. Smith related, the NHTSA actually sent an employee down to Tennessee to investigate her complaint. Only the NHTSA concluded that she had two sets of floor mats in her car—a rubber all-weather floor mat, placed on top of the standard factory issue—and it was likely that situation had created her problem. In fact, Smith was quoted in 2007 as saying, "I think it's sad that these mats were installed like they were."
The Smiths dismissed the dealer's findings, the NHTSA's, and an arbitration board's by saying that they had been "called liars." More than likely the investigators simply said that there was no evidence they could find to explain the situation as she described it.
In a case like this, some physical evidence would remain; and a thorough investigation should be able to determine what truly took place. Certainly slamming on the emergency brake, as Smith claimed she had done in 2007, leaves tangible evidence. Here's why.
The parking brake in a Lexus ES 350 operates separately from the power brake system. It is a secondary disc/drum brake that is controlled by a direct link cable—so the car's electronics could not come into play. Moreover, once that cable-operated brake is fully engaged, it could lock up the nonpowered rear wheels of the Lexus, effectively negating the antilock brake system's ability to operate. And locking the real wheels on a Lexus ES 350 moving at a high rate of speed would "sand" the bottom of the tires against the pavement. In a partially engaged position, it will heat up and cause brake damage. But either way, because it is being applied on the rear wheels—and the Lexus ES is a front-wheel-drive car—it would still slow the car down.
This is the one thing Rhonda Smith claimed she tried and it didn't work that no one can blame on ghosts in the electronics."
We all have our viewpoints and none of us has all the details of what happened or even all of the paperwork generated form any of the investigations. For me, until someone brings some real proof to the table, I won't accept the theory that there is some mysterious programming fault that Toyota or NHTSA cannot find or duplicate.
Saylor (CHP officer), had a vehicle where the wrong floor mats were installed which caused pedal entrapment.
- from http://autos.aol.com/article/toyota-...saylor-family/
"...When the San Diego County Sheriff's Department Report No. 09056454.1 became public information last week, we learned that the very same car that Mark Saylor drove on August 28 had been reported as having unintended acceleration problems.
Earlier in the week the Saylor family died, Frank Bernard and his wife picked up the very same loaner vehicle -- a white Lexus ES350 with California dealer plate 6DRT323. In a police report, Bernard told the San Diego Sheriffs that that as he was merging onto a freeway, he saw a truck nearby and accelerated briskly to get in front of it. Once in front of the truck, he let his foot off the accelerator. The vehicle "kept accelerating on its own, to about 80-85 MPH."
Bernard said he stepped on the brakes and tried to lift up on the accelerator with his right foot. He got over to the shoulder, was able to slow the car to 50-60 MPH, but was unable to stop the car's ignition (the Lexus has a push-button start system that requires a three-second hold to turn off the car). Trying everything he could, he eventually placed the car into neutral. The engine "made a very loud, whining, racing sound" but the car stopped.
He was safe.
Bernard noticed the floor mat had become stuck under the accelerator pedal. After he cleared the mat, he drove normally, although likely a little shaken..."
Just because a person is in law enforcement does not keep them from making mistakes or panicking or making bad decisions.
The Sikes episode left a lot of questions and he didn't help his credibility with some of the interviews he gave. Worst of all ( http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/12/toy...l-fumento.html ) "...Over a 23-minute period the 911 dispatcher repeatedly pleaded with Sikes to shift into neutral. He simply refused and then essentially stopped talking to her except to say that he thought he could smell his brakes burning..."
On both of these I question if either of the drivers tried everything to stop their cars.
And Mrs. Smith. From http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...225_403524.htm
"
Her local Lexus dealer examined her car and could find nothing. Then, as Ms. Smith related, the NHTSA actually sent an employee down to Tennessee to investigate her complaint. Only the NHTSA concluded that she had two sets of floor mats in her car—a rubber all-weather floor mat, placed on top of the standard factory issue—and it was likely that situation had created her problem. In fact, Smith was quoted in 2007 as saying, "I think it's sad that these mats were installed like they were."
The Smiths dismissed the dealer's findings, the NHTSA's, and an arbitration board's by saying that they had been "called liars." More than likely the investigators simply said that there was no evidence they could find to explain the situation as she described it.
In a case like this, some physical evidence would remain; and a thorough investigation should be able to determine what truly took place. Certainly slamming on the emergency brake, as Smith claimed she had done in 2007, leaves tangible evidence. Here's why.
The parking brake in a Lexus ES 350 operates separately from the power brake system. It is a secondary disc/drum brake that is controlled by a direct link cable—so the car's electronics could not come into play. Moreover, once that cable-operated brake is fully engaged, it could lock up the nonpowered rear wheels of the Lexus, effectively negating the antilock brake system's ability to operate. And locking the real wheels on a Lexus ES 350 moving at a high rate of speed would "sand" the bottom of the tires against the pavement. In a partially engaged position, it will heat up and cause brake damage. But either way, because it is being applied on the rear wheels—and the Lexus ES is a front-wheel-drive car—it would still slow the car down.
This is the one thing Rhonda Smith claimed she tried and it didn't work that no one can blame on ghosts in the electronics."
We all have our viewpoints and none of us has all the details of what happened or even all of the paperwork generated form any of the investigations. For me, until someone brings some real proof to the table, I won't accept the theory that there is some mysterious programming fault that Toyota or NHTSA cannot find or duplicate.
#23
Another "UA" in the media
http://www.wisn.com/news/23175824/detail.html
'Marseille was seriously injured and told 12 News at the time that the car took off on it's own."The car shot forward and hit the wall," Marseille said.'
'"She was adamant at the beginning that she applied the brake," said Riffel. "Obviously by the video and the information we have from our inspections, is not what occurred."When police looked at the video, they could make out brake lights, but not until after the impact.'
Lady claimed UA, but a video of the incident shows her driving at a constant speed, over a curb and into a building. Only shows brake lights on after she backs up from the building.
'Marseille was seriously injured and told 12 News at the time that the car took off on it's own."The car shot forward and hit the wall," Marseille said.'
'"She was adamant at the beginning that she applied the brake," said Riffel. "Obviously by the video and the information we have from our inspections, is not what occurred."When police looked at the video, they could make out brake lights, but not until after the impact.'
Lady claimed UA, but a video of the incident shows her driving at a constant speed, over a curb and into a building. Only shows brake lights on after she backs up from the building.
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