Road Horsepower, coast-down or otherwise
#11
Re: Road Horsepower, coast-down or otherwise
Smilin' Jack — Those two numbers for epsilon were just two numbers that I came up with when seeing how well I could match the predictions of the Maple worksheet (from which I excerpted the formulas above) with some fuel-consumption data that I gathered with my TCH. My main purpose at the time was to see if I could explain the consistent difference in fuel consumption that I found when driving the 125-km route from Waterloo to Toronto, Ontario, versus what I found when driving the same route in the reverse direction. After allowing for the elevation change, I satisfied myself that the difference was roughly consistent with the effect of the prevailing moderate westerly winds that occur in this region. The higher value epsilon2=0.33 was what I had read somewhere (I forget offhand where) for the Atkinson-cycle ICE's thermodynamic efficiency — high by ICE standards. The lower value epsilon1=0.185 gave a better match with my measured fuel-consumption data taken at 100 km/h. One could probably interpolate for intermediate values of epsilon, but I don't really think that my values have any real solid validity to them. No, I've not seen any BSFC curves for the TCH's ICE.
I have thought of trying some further experiments to refine the epsilon values, but haven't done any yet. Low-speed measurements (where air resistance is negligible) could refine the R0 value. High-speed measurements could then be used to refine the value of epsilon (around that ICE operating point). I encourage you (and others) to do some careful experiments.
Stan
I have thought of trying some further experiments to refine the epsilon values, but haven't done any yet. Low-speed measurements (where air resistance is negligible) could refine the R0 value. High-speed measurements could then be used to refine the value of epsilon (around that ICE operating point). I encourage you (and others) to do some careful experiments.
Stan
Thanks.
Would be useful to compare the Atkinson 0.33 to similar number for the standard Otto cycle ICE.
I will dig up some old notes and report back.
Jack
#12
Re: Road Horsepower, coast-down or otherwise
Smilin' Jack — I should clarify my values for epsilon. First, they nominally include all (mechanical and electrical) losses of the ICE and the transaxle. They are certainly not intended to represent the thermodynamic efficiency of the ICE alone. I looked up my notes, and can now tell you that the figure of epsilon1=0.185 I mentioned was actually deduced from my experiment, described in the thread "An Unpalatable Fact (with apologies to Al Gore!)," post #48. For this part of the experiment I cruised under ICE power at a steady 65 km/h on roughly flat ground with the cruise control "on," and obtained an average FC of 4.6 L/100 km (~51 mpgUS). If you insert this into my formulas, and compute the corresponding value of epsilon, you'll get approximately my number of 0.185. The value epsilon2=0.33 was based solely on what I had read was a ballpark number for an efficient ICE. (See pages 26 and 27 of the attached excerpt from an Argonne National Laboratory report on the Prius, dated 1999.) But, now that I think about it a bit more, this number is probably for thermodynamic efficiency only, and so likely excludes mechanical losses. The lower number of epsilon1=0.185 that I came up with in my experiment is likely a more realistic and meaningful number for the overall (gasoline-to-wheel) energy efficiency of the TCH at low speeds (~65 km/h). But, I now question whether my labelling of epsilon2=0.33 as being for "high speeds" (say ~100 km/h) is anything more than an educated guess that the ICE might be somewhat more efficient still at higher speeds.
Stan
Stan
Last edited by SPL; 09-10-2008 at 12:13 PM.
#13
Re: Road Horsepower, coast-down or otherwise
Further to all this, I could estimate, theoretically, the efficiency improvement for the TCH Atkinson cycle if I knew:
1. The maximum torque outputs of the Camry Atkinson cycle (I know I could look that one up) and the of regular (~Otto?) cycle Camry 4-cyl engine of the same displacement (I could probably look that one up.)
2. The charge volume fraction ratio for this particular engine; i.e., the ratio of the cylinder volume displacement at the time the intake valves are closed to the maximum cylinder displacement (BDC - TDC). (I don't know where to find that.)
Does anyone know the latter?
Jack
Jack
1. The maximum torque outputs of the Camry Atkinson cycle (I know I could look that one up) and the of regular (~Otto?) cycle Camry 4-cyl engine of the same displacement (I could probably look that one up.)
2. The charge volume fraction ratio for this particular engine; i.e., the ratio of the cylinder volume displacement at the time the intake valves are closed to the maximum cylinder displacement (BDC - TDC). (I don't know where to find that.)
Does anyone know the latter?
Jack
Jack
#14
Re: Road Horsepower, coast-down or otherwise
Smilin' Jack — Here's the information you're requesting, gleaned from the New Car Features Guides for the Hybrid and Non-hybrid 2007 Camry's. Let us know what you can deduce.
Stan
Stan
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