I had "check hybrid system" error a few years ago and got to solve the problem with a cell swap and now having the same issue. I Took the car to dealer and they ran diagnostics. Please take a look at the attachments to see the report.
1. So now as you would see it says "3 volt difference" but I don't see a 3 volt difference. Do they mean 0.3 volt or am I interpreting it wrong?
2. On the other hand they marked block #8 and 12 but which side of the battery should I start counting from? Any suggestions? If I am counting from the correct side which is the passenger side when installed the 12th block has a cell reading 7.19. But 8th block reads like the rest of the cells. How can I detect which cell has the problem in the 8th block? I have read that voltage is not the only thing that determines a good cell. .
3. Lastly I took the battery apart after sitting around a month all the cells read around 7.58 one read 7.19 and one 7.25 do you think I should change both or just 7.19? Today I charged every cell to the maximum level with a trickle charger. I am planning to wait around a day then re check the voltages.
Welcome to the hell that is DIY module replacement on a Camry. Your experience is very typical. You have a 34 wheeled land truck with bald tires. You can't tell they're bald until they blow. You replace a blown one with a used one. Guess what's gonna happen next?
They likely meant a 0.3V difference as that's called out in the service manual.
What you're seeing are your block voltages under a 65A load at 24.5% SoC.
Pretty much anything under 13.77 is suspect as your high block is 14.07. They likely used 14.00V instead of the high I see of 14.07.
Voltage can only confirm bad, not good. When you have a pack with 32 modules at 7.58 and two below that, guess what. BOTH of those modules are bad. In fact anything outside a 0.05V range after sitting for an extended period is likely bad. The only exceptions are the end modules as they tend to run about 0.05 - 0.10V below the group.
Lastly, regardless of resting voltage, you have NO way of determining whether a module is good or bad in terms of capacity or internal resistance.
@S Keith
Thank you for your reply. I am aware of how annoying It is to get them back on the road. I did it once it was easier but this time is going a little harsher. I changed a cell but the lights came back on a few hours later then I took it to dealer to get it diagnosed I did not know that I could get a tech stream tool for cheaper than a dealer diag but anyways.
Am I counting the blocks from the correct side? (The 1st block is the first on the Passenger side when installed)
My 10th block is reading 14.07 so what I'm thinking is I can swap a cell from 10th block with 8th. And replace the low reading cell from the 12th block with one I bought. So the problems may be solved this way. Do you recommend doing so?
The last time when I changed a cell I mixed up all the cells and could not put them back in their original spots because I did not mark anything. I think the problem may have caused from this. Would you agree?
@S Keith
Thank you for your reply. I am aware of how annoying It is to get them back on the road. I did it once it was easier but this time is going a little harsher. I changed a cell but the lights came back on a few hours later then I took it to dealer to get it diagnosed I did not know that I could get a tech stream tool for cheaper than a dealer diag but anyways.
(2) Am I counting the blocks from the correct side? (The 1st block is the first on the Passenger side when installed)
(3) My 10th block is reading 14.07 so what I'm thinking is I can swap a cell from 10th block with 8th. And replace the low reading cell from the 12th block with one I bought. So the problems may be solved this way. Do you recommend doing so?
(4) The last time when I changed a cell I mixed up all the cells and could not put them back in their original spots because I did not mark anything. I think the problem may have caused from this. Would you agree?
(0) You made no mention of cleaning your bus bars. The circular area of the copper bus bar in contact with the end of the modules needs to be completely clean. The rest of the bus bar doesn't matter much, but cleaning them completely isn't a bad idea. Furthermore, the nuts need to be torqued to 48 in-lb; no more; no less.
(1) That charger has no effective use in this effort. I mean ZERO. If you're using it to charge blocks, you are not actually putting anything in them. A block at 14.4V resting is EMPTY. If the charger puts out 14.8V, you are BARELY putting anything in them. In short, every second you apply that charger to a block, it's a wasted second. As you've seen yourself, blocks resting for a month are at 15.16V - well above what the charger can supply. If you are applying it to a single module, it may be useful; however, most 12V chargers won't work that far below the expected voltage for a 12V.
(2) I don't know. I can't remember on the Camry. I avoid cracking them open as they are typically completely destroyed. I just take them back to Toyota as a core. On the Prius, block 1 is opposite the ECU side, which would make it the driver's side on the Camry.
(3) You should replace all modules below 0.05V from the max, i.e., if your max voltage module is 7.58V, you should replace anything below 7.53V.
(4) I do not agree. Modules are either good or bad. their positions are only relevant in terms of cooling. Packs tend to be hotter in the middle, so you want your strongest modules in the middle. Unfortunately, you have no idea if any of your modules are suitable for use.
1) Take two bus bars and secure them to ONE end of ONE module pointing upwards. Take two more bus bars and secure them in like fashion to the other end of the module. When complete, you will have two bus bars sandwiched together at each end of the module pointing UP.
2) Clamp the tester onto these vertical bus bars.
3) Attach a separate voltmeter to the module.
4) Record starting voltage on separate meter
5) Apply load for 15 seconds
6) Record end voltage on separate meter immediately before terminating the load.
7) Repeat 1-6 for each module. Allow tester to cool in forced air for at least 60 seconds.
Record all of the data in a spreadsheet.
The outliers should be replaced.
A Hybrid Automotive reconditioning system will likely extend the life of your repair significantly.
(0) I put all of the bolts and the material which has 2 circular holes into a baking soda-vinegar mixture for about 12 hours. They look good.
(4) On the report it checks for blocks right. So each block's total voltage should be important rather than each cell. Am I wrong?
(1) I used that charger to charge each cell individually. Let them rest around 20hours and checked their voltage. My excell sheet is attached please check it (The highlighted cells are replacements I have done till today). It looks like my blocks have greater difference than it should be. What would you recommend based on looking at my excell sheet?
Should I try to drain some batteries to balance them?
I think the dealer diag may be showing those results because I did not charge/balance the cells I replaced.
I think I will try to install and run before purchasing any more equipment.
(4) module voltage influences block voltage, so they both matter. If module voltage is off, block voltage will be off. If you focus on module voltage, your block voltages will work out.
(1) A 2A 12V charger typically typically NOT give reliable results when trying to charge significantly less than 12V and below 10.5V in particular as a 12V battery should never be below 10.5V in a resting state.
(1A) How long did you charge each module?
(1B) Did you confirm that 2A was flowing the whole time?
(1C) What was the peak voltage during charge?
I believe that your selection of charger is a major part of your issue. It is likely doing almost nothing for you. 12V chargers will not charge low voltage batteries for very long. The smart chargers say, "this 12V battery is not responding the way it should," and they either cut current entirely or drop to a very low "trickle" current - both situations are bad for you.
Unless the module was completely empty when you installed it, it is unlikely to be the cause of your code, but it could be if it was empty.
Which of the above modules are the 7.19 and 7.25 in your original post? Those need to be replaced.
To be blunt, you have a spoon. You are trying to do a job that requires a bulldozer, but you're content with the spoon. You are going to get spoon results. You can choose to keep doing it the wrong way, but you are on a continual path of periodic module replacement. If you enjoy this sort of thing, then keep at it. If you actually want a chance at a long-lasting repair, you need to change your process.
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10-23-2017, 10:41 PM
TCH 2007 Diagnostic Report Question
