I have a lot of miles on my 2008 TCH and my traction battery is getting tired. The car is used so I don't know if this is the original battery pack or a replacement, probably a replacement.

The hybrid system warning has come on several times now. The first time it came on, maybe 30,000+ miles ago, I pulled the battery, cleaned the terminals and re-assembled. That was good for another 10,000 miles or so.

Since the cleaning episode the warning has come on two or three more times, shutting down the hybrid system. Each that happened I checked the battery on Techstream, saw no cells out of balance, and simply reset the warning. Every time I do this the car is good for another 5000 - 10,000 miles. Mileage is down to 31-32 mpg and I haven't seen green on the SOC display for a while but what the heck? I've still got a car that gets me to work every day and gets decent mileage.

This is more of a sharing post than asking for help. Mostly curious to see if anyone else has done this and how long they kept the car running.

 

Things aren't out of balance because there's massive deterioration. No cells have failed, but individual module capacities are likely less than 1.0Ah vs. the rated 6.5Ah and have too little usable capacity to provide the mileage benefit.

Here in Phoenix, that's how most Camry and Gen3 Prius fail. You'll never find them by voltage alone.

Here's some info on per-module testing of a Camry pack:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f...16/#post262723

Check the Blue bars as that's what you're dealing with when you're just swapping modules.

 

I tried that reset/clear code when I got the P0A80 code, the car was parked for a week and eventually killed the traction battery. The final straw that I decided to replace it with a reconditioned pack was the 3rd time it threw the P0A80 and P3021, it stalled and blower fan in the rear in full blast and hybrid won't run anymore even clearing the code. Next morning it went 70% charge again but will drastically drop to 1 purple bar when driving.. I went with GreenBean since they have a longer warranty compared to GreenTec here in Kansas.. car is back to when it was new again (seeing green bars most of the time)

 

Please keep us up to date on your experience with GreenBean. Having tested THOUSANDS of modules on superior equipment, all my data says a five year warranty is a pipe dream, particularly with the equipment that they're using. Based on their premium pricing, I suspect they're planning 1-2 replacements per warranty period and still coming out ahead.

 

Hmm... after reading your posts I am feeling as though battery failure could be sooner than later and you have convinced me that module replacement is not worth the time nor effort.

With over 300k miles on the car I am regarding any miles I get from this battery as 'bonus miles' and this has become something of a game. The goal is to drive the car long enough to wear out this set of tires so we'll see what happens. Given the wear on all the moving parts I have no plans to replace the traction battery in part or whole.

 

300K is great. It's at the threshold of failure due to the codes you received.

Since you essentially have nothing left to lose, a DIY rebuild is probably worthwhile. Here's what I recommend:

Purchase 12V Schumacher BT-100 100A load tester or equivalent ($25 amazon). It's a little nicer and more reliable than the Harbor Freight units.
Obtain voltmeter/multimeter if you don't already have one.

Read the post in my sig, "Load test a module" for reference.

Remove/disassemble pack to the point you can remove the bus bar straps.
Let pack sit for 24 hours
Record all 34 module voltages (X.XXV accuracy)
Let pack sit for 7 days
Record all 34 module voltages
Attach load tester as shown in that thread
Attach voltmeter to module
Apply load for 10 seconds
Record voltage on meter immediately before terminating the load
Terminate load
Place tester in flowing air (fan, etc.) to cool
Repeat for all 34 modules approximately 1 every 2 minutes (to keep tester from overheating).

At conclusion, you have:

24 hour resting voltage
7 day resting voltage (indicative of charge loss)
Voltage drop under 60A load (12V 100A tester puts about 60A on a single 7.2V module).

The above data give you results that take into consideration capacity, self-discharge and internal resistance. Outliers need to be replaced, i.e., those with the lowest resting voltages and those that hit the lowest voltages are bad.

Depending how far you want to go, you could even recondition the pack yourself, but that pushes the project to about 2 weeks and would require another $100 in equipment, and a comfort level with light assembly of electrical circuits.

 

Are you kidding? An opportunity to learn something and, more than that, an excuse to buy a new tool??? I enjoy fixing things - both the challenge and the good feeling that results from fixing a broken item.

You seem to know quite a bit about batteries. As I was coming back from lunch I was thinking of asking you what you think of the maintenance traction battery chargers that have been a frequent subject of discussion on this site. Oddly enough, I can't find a post on that particular charger anywhere now (a relatively small, round unit) and can't remember the name of the company. My apologies if you have already answered this question elsewhere and I missed it.

So.. battery reconditioning is a real thing? I assume that a module can't be restored to its original state or someone would be making a fortune making good modules out of bad.

If you have already commented on realistic expectations of cell/battery reconditioning would you mind sharing the link? And what is the equipment I would have to get? Thanks.

 

If you search this site, you will find I'm an authorized installer for Hybrid Automotive Prolong systems (the small round units - remind me of a green ladybug). Their systems have been working on Honda hybrids for over 5 years.

Yes, battery reconditioning is a completely real thing:

https://hybridautomotive.com/pages/techstream-test

I am Steve K.

While we are now affiliated, we were not at the time that information was published. I did that reconditioning in 11/15, and the car is still performing without additional follow-up... with a 16 year old driving it... Health was tested at the 2 year mark and confirmed to be in the 50-60% range (going off memory). I keep pestering him to bring it by for another treatment, but since it's working fine, he's not compelled...

The success of a reconditioning depends exclusively on the type of deterioration the battery has experienced. There is voltage depression - analogous to the old NiCd "memory" effect, and then there is damage. Capacity loss due to voltage depression can be corrected with reconditioning. No, 100% recovery is not possible, but as you can see, it can be substantial - more than enough to restore proper performance.

Given my experience with Camry and the other Gen3 Toyota hybrids - damage is always permanent, i.e., reconditioning doesn't work; however, this is also a function of heat. Here in AZ, it's 100% true. In milder climates, it's less true. In VERY mild temperatures, it's far less true.

It's a case-by-case basis. No guarantees, and you don't know until you try.

Most module swap repairs fail because marginal modules are not identified and all modules suffer from some amount of voltage depression with dramatically reduced capacity.

If you preceeded the operations I listed with a 3 cycles using the prolong system, you would maximize your results; however, the degree of improvement is completely uncertain. it might be huge or it might be negligible. On the far side of the spectrum, it could completely fix your battery with no further effort. On the other side, it could do nothing for you. If a gun was held to my head, I'd say somewhere right in the middle... there's been a lot of damage, but you'll recover most of the lost capacity, and you'll have to replace multiple modules. In the end, you'll have a pretty reliable DIY repair, and you'll have a tool for battery maintenance moving forward.

 

Exciting day yesterday, the SOC moved into the green for a good part of the day, first time I have seen that color in weeks. There's life in the old boy yet.

Makes me wonder why yesterday was different from the previous weeks, the route I traveled to work and to the gym is the same route I travel every day. Favorable environmental conditions? Is there a loose connection somewhere making better contact? Did MG1 or MG2 (whichever charges the traction battery) spring to life?

I hope it isn't a last gasp.

 

It's been a couple months and several thousand more miles since my last update. The 'check hybrid' light continues to come on from time to time but I simply pull out the Torque app, erase the error code from the car's computer, and keep driving.

One thing I have noticed is that the only time the 'check hybrid' warning light comes on is within a minute or two of starting the car. If I go two or three minutes then I'm good for the whole trip.
Another thing I have noticed is that waiting at a stop light on a hot day tends to run the battery down rather quickly and likely leads to a problem the next time the car starts.

What I have been doing of late is starting the car with the the climate control completely off and driving the car for a few minutes without the fan or A/C, just windows open if necessary. Since I started doing this the warning light has not come on but I realize that is far less than scientific and my theory might be disproven the next time the car starts.

For what it's worth - the car is approaching 400k and I have no intention of investing any money in it, this is just a game of sorts to see how much farther it will go (and to see if I can wear out the tires I put on it a couple months ago).