2004 HCH I 5-speed
Bought used, no history, 157,000 miles currently.
Started to experience weak IMA battery about a year ago with IMA light and CEL light coming on. Could reset lights with 12V disconnect but would come back on shortly. Use grid charger to reset light for enough miles to pass inspection (can't have CEL light on.) But IMA and CEL came back on eventually.
Recent issue, my daughter (it is her car) reported all lights went dim, car started to die, rough running, barely made it home. I replaced 12V battery, started and running fine but with 12V warning light on (at idle,) IMA and CEL lights on. I replaced the IMA battery but no change in lights. 12V will charge between 1500 and 3000 RPM. Throws codes P1580 and P1586.
Other notes:
If keyed off and on while holding about 3-4000 rpm, IMA light goes off, battery shows charging to full, but 12V light stays on. When rpm drop below about 2500, clicking heard from controller area next to IMA battery and IMA light comes on. 12V light returns to off between 1500-3000 rpm.
Had the car to the Honda dealer for evaluation. Still waiting to see written report, but it sounds like they are pointing towards failed IMA controller.

Would love some thoughts on how to proceed. Has anyone seen a controller failure, or DC/DC inverter failure with these symptoms? Return new IMA battery and scrap the car? Would be fine to bi-pass battery if the CEL light will go off, can't be on for inspection. Buy used controller/inverter and throw it on there. Hate to spend money on an unknown fix. Anyone have a known good for loan?

Thanks in advance. John

 

John,


Please update your profile to show location.


"new" battery? new from Honda? Reconditioned? If it's not a new Honda or a new aftermarket (rebuilt with NEW cells), it should go back. Period.


Did you have failed battery codes prior to replacement, or did you not check them? If so, what were they?


I don't have the manual for the HCH1, but P1580 and P1586 are not related to the IMA battery. There MAY be circumstances where they can be triggered by a bad IMA battery, but you would get other battery-specific codes.


If they tell you that you need a new MCM (motor control module) or BCM (battery control module), tell them to stuff the thousands of $ they want and get ones from a salvage yard. You can probably get a whole IPU assembly minus the battery pack for a few hundred $. The IPU is the entire bay of goodies behind the rear seat cushion.

 

Thanks for the reply, updated my location.
The battery is a Cardone brand, has a 3 year warranty.
I believe we did have the codes read but I can't remember the specifics. I think there was the generic CEL code (P1600?) and one of the P14xx series codes that pointed to a weakening battery.
P1580 and P1586 are "Battery Current Circuit Problem" and "Motor Power Inverter (MPI) Module Current Signal/Battery Current Signal Circuit Problem" respectively.
Good guidance on the used parts, you are right, several on Ebay now complete for about $200.
So, if you were in my shoes would you go ahead and swap all that out? Seems unlikely that the problem would not be in there somewhere.
I did do some basic checking of all the fuses, chassis grounds etc.
Thanks! John

 

I've seen the Cardone on Rockauto, but I know nothing about it. Is it made with new or reconditioned cells? If reconditioned, send it back. There is only one battery builder I trust, and that's Bumblebee.


Okay. P1600 is the generic IMA related code and P1447 and 1449 are common battery failure codes, so you likely had a legit battery problem.


IIRC, there can be an issue with the main battery fuse on the battery pack junction board that can cause similar issues. If you're telling me that you ONLY had P1600 and P144X before the battery swap and P1580/P1586 came immediately after installation of the new battery pack, it's likely something on the battery junction board. Unlikely those get tested by Cardone.

 

I looked at Bumblebee but at the time all were on back order. I am also not sure what Cardone does exactly.
To clarify, the same codes 1580 and 1586 were present before and after the IMA battery replacement. We had the codes read after the 12V battery failure since the 12V light was a new one. We had them read again after the IMA swap, no change in lights or symptoms.
Several weeks before replacing the IMA I pulled the old one and tested the large fuses for continuity, which they had, but I am not sure that is a good diagnostic. I did not pull any of that off the new battery, but since the symptoms have not changed I feel like we have another problem.
Crunching cost/benefit numbers now on scrapping the car. I don't mind spending money on repairs, but not knowing if throwing parts at it will fix it, not so much. But I have come this far, might get the full package used and just go for it.
John

 

Unfortunately, they always show on backorder, but you typically get them in 7-10 days.


I would find out for certain if the cells are new or used. If new, fine. If used, send it back.


Can't see either way from this:


https://www.cardone.com/Products/Pro...+Type%3a%3a%3a


what color were the sticks when viewed from the opening?


You likely had multiple issues when you replaced the battery. As long as you don't use the dealer for repairs, you likely have a means of repairing this cheap.

 

The sticks in the Cardone were green.

Cheap is the word! Still likely better than ditching the car and having to buy another used car. At least with this I have some history. Mechanically it seems to be in good shape.

 

They are likely new Chinese made sticks. It seems almost all of them are green.


I'd wait to hear what the dealer says. Their HDS can give a little more information about the specifics generating the errors and pinpoint them.


I vigorously recommend this:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-2004-20...RWu4yx&vxp=mtr

 

An update.

The Honda dealer confirmed the same codes, P1586 and P1580. They suggested replacing the 12V battery with a "Honda Battery" (even though the battery in the car tested fine and is new,) and replacement of the IMA battery junction board. The quote was over $3,000.00.
It seemed unlikely to me that the junction board would be bad on the replacement battery.
I purchased for $160 off ebay a used DC/DC invertor and all the other controls, basically everything else behind the seat and swapped that out.
No change! Exact same issue.
Next I put the car on the lift and visually inspected the high voltage lines to hte motor, they did not appear that they were damaged (the cover looked good at least,) and then I removed the intake and water line necessary to remove the high voltage connection cover at the engine. Visually, everything appeared fine.
I have done some basic tests on the IMA junction board, but I don't fully know what all the components are.
My gut tells me the issue is something simple. When you turn the car to run, the IMA light is off briefly and then "click," from the area of the junction board and the IMA light comes on. This happens without actually starting the engine . If you are quick with the key, the IMA battery starts the engine, go slow and the 12V starter kicks in.
I am running out of things to check here, though I hate to give in at this point.

John

 

Did you buy the service manual?