Going back to your first post, you said they replaced the IMA battery, but it turned out that the problem was a bad relay. Did the car exhibit the same symptoms back then (before the IMA battery was changed) that you are having now? Just wondering if it's the relay acting up again.

If you can get a look at the Service Manual (try at your dealership's parts department; at my dealership they have a shelf full of manuals there). It should be section 4 that deals with the starting system. There are numerous checks that can be done, step by step, to determine the problem. But one of them deals with the starter cut relay. I'm wondering if this is the relay that got replaced previously, and maybe it's a problem again now.

just a guess.

 

I appreciate you updating this thread as you find out things. It's bad that it's happening to you, but will be interesting to see what the problem eventually turns out to be.

 

MLTTASK- Thanks for the support....This has been painful.

Gairwyn - Good thought. But this problem is somewhat different. Although equally bizzare.

My first IMA problem started by the IMA light coming on briefly. It would then turn off. The car worked fine for a few weeks with the IMA light going off and on. Then one day the car was dead. I jumped it and it ran fine but it would occasionaly not start. I finally got it over to the dealship while the light was on. I don't remmber the code but the Honda techs said I needed to repalce the battery. They replaced it. Car worked fine then started misbehaving after a few days. While the honda tech was replacing the battery AGAIN! He noticed a cracked...yes litteraly cracked relay. It was the cooling fan relay. He replaced it and the car worked fine....up untill this most recent set of events.

I will try the service manual thing. But from what I have seen even the service manuals suck for this hybrid. Its been made very apparent that honda does not want there techs messing with the IMA system. They probally have good reasons for that. ....Just sucks for me.

Jacob

 

All:

My problem has finally been solved. It ended up being a very simple fix although it took a long time and me being really stubborn to get it fixed.
Final Answer: A broke/loose pin on the ECM!
I finally convinced Honda to go old school and troubleshoot the system rather than just replacing stuff and they found it pretty fast. Final cost was 100 bucks. Although in retrospect the Honda dealer is the only person who ever disconnected the ECM computer……So they most likely broke it a while back….I didn’t think to complain though I was just happy to have my car working again.

Jacob

 

Has anyone come up with a conversion kit to run 100K+ miles HCH (post IMA battery failure ($3K), post DC-to-DC converter failure ($800)...post hybrid failure ...can't/don't want to figure it out and can't find a non dealer mechanic to fix it) to a straight 1.3L powered Civic for us country folks who are willing to downshift if needed? Why waste a perfectly good Honda engine and car due to the charging going through the 144 V IMA battery. Seems like putting an 12V alternator (need a belt and pulley change) on to charge the 12V (so we can use the regular starter and also supply power to the engine spark plugs (are the fuel injector/sparking like a normal non-hybrid for the 1.3L moter?), freezing/programming or building a new ECM/ECU to just stay in the all gas mode, rewire as need to remove the IMA battery and electronics (70 plus pounds estimate), leave the 13 hp motor in place to free wheel (we don't need or want 144V anymore, autostop (never), assisting (never), charging using the 13 hp motor (never), etc.). If it weren't for the electronics/chips/programming probably a lot of shade tree mechanics could do this). No more large orange wires coming from the back!, no more...well it is a hybrid so you better take it back to the dealer. Would this be less expensive than dropping in an SI engine, harness, ECU?

 

Oh, I forgot the electric power steering. Is the EPS 12V powered?

Hopefully I have not insulted any of the diehard hybrid believers with this and the previous post. My point is that at some point it does not make sense to fix from a cost stand point problems that that must be fixed to bring back the hybrid capability. But getting extra service from the car in a all gas configuration with the small gas efficient engine seems the right thing to do (if not too expensive).

 

Interesting point but it seems to me you would only do this if the IMA system fails completely in a "sweet spot", that is after the warranty has expired but before the car racks up too many miles.

Of course if the IMA system fails under warranty it just makes sense to get it fixed for free.

At the other extreme you have someone like me who since about 170,000 miles has tolerated a "weak" IMA system (light on solid, charge/assist don't function 100%, autostop sporadic, etc..) but the 12V is still being charged by the IMA system, plus it's a standard and I don't mind downshifting either. But the car also has 240,000 miles on it now and I have already decided if the 12V stops charging that will be it. To me it just doesn't make sense to turn that high mileage a car into a non-hybrid.

So to answer the question, I guess maybe if the IMA system failed "completely" on a manual shift 2003 HCH with 100-150,00 miles it might be worth attempting to turn it into a non-hybrid, depending on PITA factor of course.

I suppose if you removed the AC compressor an alternator would mount there without too much trouble. Wiring it and getting the ECU to recognize it are beyond my skill level however. I would also just flip the IMA switch off and leave all the hardware in place. Why bother removing it?

 

To me the issue is the how the hybrid setup (charging and operating "normal" systems like steering, AC, 12V power/charging through the 144 V system with MCMs, BCMs, converters, etc) is just introducing too many failure points that cause you to go back to the dealer for resolution. Also, eliminating these post useful (cost effective repairs don't seem to exist with battery replacement for example being $3K)) hybrid operation (100K miles) would be less worrisome. Not knowing when another piece of the "hybrid" setup is going to fail (and how) while operating in the degraded mode just isn't very desireable. Eliminating as much as possible seems the way to go. Eliminating the IMA battery and electronics from the back seat would also be like removing a 70 pound orangatang (sp?) constant passenger (remember the Clint Eastwood movie and right turn Clyde?). When depending on a 81 hp 1.3 L engine only, 70 lbs could be significant. I would vote for a double pulley system and putting the alternator in the space between the engine and the firewall. I still want my AC here in VA even if I have to run in 2nd gear all the time!
It just seems the mods to do this would be less expensive than most of the repairs to fix the IMA malfunctions (unless it turns out to be a blown fuse on the 100 amp junction board, the IMA battery is still good and I don't fry myself replacing the fuze).

I explained in other posts I have a 03, MT, with no charge showing on the IMA battery on the dashboard, no charging on the IMA battery per the dashboard, 12V battery light coming on below 1200 rpms with good 12V battery installed, 99236 miles, AC compressor not working (related?), engine cooling fan comes on when AC button pressed but clutch on compressor does not engage (could be low freon?, checked AC relay in underhood box by switching with other relays in box (same numbers on relays) and it did not help). Car sat for a while before purchased. Honda service (misnomer?) rep said MCM would /could have lost its memory due to sitting with bad 12V, but I thought these had non-volatile memory chips in them. Otherwise changing out the batteries (12V or 144V) would require a reprogram by the dealer. Don't tell me Honda would do that, please.

Well depending on the results of a road test once I get license plates I may just drive it for the next 250K miles with the IMA and check engine light on and turn the idle up to more than 1200 rpms to keep the 12V charged. Of course no one else in the family will agree to drive it.

 

Installed a new 12V battery (51R, 500CCA from Batteries Plus), got license plates, and drove to Advance Auto to use their code reader with reset capability. Dumped the following codes:
P1600 (Manufacturer Control, Aux Inputs, Aux Outputs)
P1575 ( Manufacturer Control Vehicle Speed, Idle Speed Cntl, Aux Inputs)

the same codes I had a "mechanic" dump for me before (without benefit of words). Anyone know what these mean or do I have to go to the Honda dealer and pay them to tell me?

Returned code reader, got into car and started engine (regular 12V starter used) and immediately the IMA and Check engine light lit up again. Shucks!

Took the car for a 60 mile, 60 mph drive and got 59 mpg! Still no charge showing in IMA battery, no IMA charging, no assist and no auto stop. Car still lights the 12V battery light once rpm goes below 1200. Wonder if this is related to the P1575 code, Idle speed Cntl? Car idles at about 1000 rpm with only a slight (less than 50) variation as it idles.

Guess I still need to go behind the back seat and look around. I also noticed elsewhere that the big orange wiring harness has two relays associated with it. Not clear from the diagram on Majestic auto where the relays are located.

Any ideas out there on any of this?

 

I had these exact same symptoms after I let my 2003 HCH MT sit for about 3 months. No charge/assist and the 12V icon would light at idle.

It sounds off the wall but the way I brought it back to life was the following:

While coming down a long steep hill I pushed the clutch in (tranny in 5th gear), turned the key off for a couple seconds, turned the key back on and waited a couple seconds, popped the clutch back out and boom, the IMA system came back to life.

I can't explain it, don't know why it worked, but it did. Apparently there wasn't anything "blown" and the IMA just needed a kick in the butt to get going again. That was in July 2010 and I'm still driving the car today. I still have the CEL/IMA light on all the time but the 12V charges and the IMA system works most of the time.

This isn't the safest thing to do so if you try it you do so at your own risk. Keep in mind the steering wheel locks when you turn the key to the off position.

Like I said, off the wall....