HCH I-Specific Discussions Model Years 2003–2005

HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

  #21  
Old 03-11-2019, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

Discharging without charging first is not a good idea. "take the load" and have "5.0Ah capacity" - what load? How was capacity tested?

No. Battery details can't be read from the car's OBD port - not even with Honda Diagnostic System (HDS). The information just isn't available.

Grid charging these batteries has been common practice for about 8 years. Most use various 350mAh LED power supplies. 2X APC-35-350 would work great.
 
  #22  
Old 03-13-2019, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

Thanks for the reply. I started with 3 packs to get one good pack. Here's how I tested load and capacity.

6 cell stick, 0.9V/Cell, 50 Celcius, 5 min wait.
3 discharge > Charge cycles

100Ah 12V Deep Cycle Battery as Source.
Regenerative discharge 16A (300W max.)
sticks charged at 9A.

All good sticks between 5.0-5.3 Ah
Bad sticks, specially original pack ones, between 2.0-3.0Ah

I deep discharge the pack down to 20V using a 100W 220V tungsten filament bulb. After this the car runs fine (full assist for more than 10 secs) for about a week and then pack become unbalanced and IMA comes on.

For grid Charging I'm using Meanwell 3x RS-25-48 (48V 0.57A) and 1x LPC-20-350 (0-48V 0.35A) all in series. I made the Charger about 7-8 years ago, but I was not in my home country and the car was being used by my father.

Thanks and best regards,
Irfan.
 

Last edited by irfanbk; 03-13-2019 at 03:14 AM.
  #23  
Old 03-13-2019, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

I'm guessing you copied the grid charger design from 99mpg.com

1) 16A discharge to 5.4V/stick is a good way to kill them. You likely did damage while cycling.
2) 9A is too high a charge rate. 1C is preferred.
3) if you ran sticks up to 50°C before the charge was terminated, you likely did more damage.
4) A 5 minute wait is too short. 20 minutes provides a more realistic capacity.

Your testing omitted what most people's testing omits - discharge over time. This requires > 1 week of resting. You need to start over. After you've determined capacity:

Charge sticks
Let sit for 7 days.
Measure and record ALL 6 CELL VOLTAGES PER STICK
Discharge to 6V and record capacity
Once you have all 20 sticks tested, the bad ones will be the outliers - the ones with highest CELL voltages variations within the same stick and the lowest capacity.

Also, grid charging without driving the cooling fan is a good way to kill the battery. The HCH1 uses a PWM controlled fan, so you will need to provide a means of control. Alternatively, you can ground the PWM line and drive it with a 100W+ 12V power supply.
 
  #24  
Old 03-15-2019, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

Hi,
Grid Charger was from older 99mpg.com website, some other URL, but its a simple 350mA constant current supply which NiMH batteries require.

No sticks seemed damaged, that were good to begin with (tested at 6A charge/6A discharge).
No stick reached 50 Celsius cutoff, maybe due to high wind near seaside and pedestal fan near the setup. Wind did destroy/corrode the charger which was replaced under warranty.

I might not go to cell level testing, but we'll see.

For Now:
Out of 60 sticks that I tested for capacity and load, 20 out of my original pack and 5 more from other 2 packs were under 4.5Ah.
Since batteries are charged between 30 and 80 percent during use, I don't want to discard the sticks that can hold charge and provide 10C discharge current. I'm looking for a way to keep them balanced during night parking either by connecting a 5W or so load on the pack or permanently connecting the grid charger within the car (maybe with an inverter) and timer to top up every hour for 15 mins or so. Fan should not be required but supplying PWM to it won't be a problem.

Thanks and best regards,
Irfan
 

Last edited by irfanbk; 03-15-2019 at 04:59 AM.
  #25  
Old 03-16-2019, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

Your pursuit is folly.

Capacity is the least important characteristic. Do the testing as I prescribed, or you're just going to go in circles never finding a solution.
 
  #26  
Old 04-04-2019, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

Then how about replacing (or adding) a lithium polymer set. 40S should be the same nominal voltage with LiHV taking a maximum of 174V. I know that LiHV require CC-CV for charging but if I can determine that the maximum charging voltage is under 174V, it can work.
 
  #27  
Old 04-04-2019, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

It will work perfectly until the car rams 50A into it at 211.2V. The IPU might even contain the fireball long enough for you to escape.
 
  #28  
Old 04-05-2019, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

211.2 would be for 132 cells on HCH2. For 120 cells shouldn't it be lower?
Also if used in parallel with NiMH, most of 50A would go to NiMH. Otherwise Lithium Polymer BMS could be used.
 
  #29  
Old 04-05-2019, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: HCH1 IMA battery voltage reading & reconditioning

The fire would occur at 192V instead.
 
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