Hi all,

My fuel efficiency went from about 42 mpg -- I live in a place where going under 65 mph will get you killed on the hwy, so I am happy with 42 -- to about 34 after my first oil change.

The weather did get colder, so that might be the issue, but I also suspect the dealer did not use the correct oil. Now they did make a big deal about knowing it was a hybrid, they also made a big deal about the price of using the better oil (with filter), they charged me about $60. I did not make a big deal about the cost, but I will shop around next time, I live within about 20 miles of about 5 honda dealers.

a. Is there anything I can do to tell if they used the correct oil? Short of taking some out and sending it somewhere for an analysis?

b. What do others pay for oil changes? They changed the filter per my request (they charged for it), which is fine with me, I plan to keep the car, I did not want to go 13k miles on the original filter, no matter what honda says. But is $60 for oil and filter in the ballpark?

thanks and happy holidays to all,

Mark

 

I had a similar experience with a Camry Hybrid. At the first oil change, the dealer used 5W-20 instead of 0W-20, and I instantly lost several miles per gallon. The service manager argued that there would be no difference in fuel economy with 5W-20, but I involved the OEM and proved the dealership wrong. The dealer changed my oil back to 0W-20 and my fuel economy immediately returned to normal. The solution is to bring in your own oil and request the 'empties' to remove all doubt. Call anonymously and ask your dealer to tell you what weight oil they use for hybrids – I doubt they will lie to you.

 

Hi Steve,

This dealer makes a big deal about using the 0w oil for the hybrids, so that's not the problem, I worry that they make the big deal -- and charge for it -- but they screw the consumer by using 5w20 or 10w40 or whatever they have lying around. Since the weather got much colder at about the same time, and I notice that autostop works much less until the car is warm, i will give them the benefit of the doubt right now, but we'll see: If there is no easy way to check the oil weight, perhaps it's best to go to my local service guy who I trust in the future, he will put in the correct oil.

thanks,

Mark

 

If you don't trust your dealer, and if you are set up ok, ie: have a garage or carport and a few tools, I'd consider getting into doing the oil changes yourself. You're "allowed" to, ie: it won't void warranty, the barebones description is even outlined in the owners manual. You'll save a few bucks, and no more charges for "shop supplies".

One wrinkle is the extra plastic panel under the engine compartment. With removal of two 10mm bolts and two push-in fasteners at it's leading edge you can swing it down at a hinge point. With the front of the vehicle raised with a floor jack and safety stands put in (aim for a raise of around 7-8" at the front rocker panel jack points), an oil change is doable.

With that amount of lift the hinged plastic panel will not swing all the way down, but far enough that you can work something out. I use a squat 4 quart container with a horizontal neck, and a very large funnel. (I'll post some links) The funnel allows me to sort-of cantilever into the area of oil drain bolt.

Back to the dealer, one other issue: they may have overfilled the oil. The spec is 3.2 liter with filter change, 3.0 liter without. Ours routinely threw in 4.0 liter, changed the filter whether or not it was spec'd., and argued with me if I tried to stick to the spec (no filter change at Service A).

Overfilled oil will not help your fuel economy, but a little is not that detrimental in my experience. I suspect it's the weather, combined with "winter gas" switch over, just speculating.

Links:

I used the 1.25 gallon size of these:

http://www.nospill.com/clearcan.htm

Note, this is the non-gas grade container. They offer gas grade as well, for a few bucks more.

This is how it looks with the funnel. With the height and cantilever of the funnel you can work it with the plastic under panel only partially swung down:

 

You are lucky they changed your oil at all. I'm a fleet mechanic and one of my drivers had a problem with his vehicle. I checked it out for him. As a habit after I was done, I checked all his fluids. ('cause it's so easy) I told him he was over a quart low on oil and that he was overdue on an oil change. He said he was going to a dealer for their special on oil change & spark plug replacement. A few weeks later I checked his oil again. I inspected his oil as I was wiping off the dipstick. It looked like liquified charcoal. When I ulled the dipstick the second time to check the level, it was dry. It took 3 quarts to bring the level to full. I told him that once the level got so low it was cycling the three and later the two remaining quarts of oil through the engine so fast that oil consumption increased quickly as the level got lower. He never mentioned this to the dealer, and I'm wondering if they even changed the spark plugs he paid for. I could only tell him to trade the car in to a dealer because of his engine getting chewed up inside. It's kind of the same story of another person having their transmission rebuilt for $1300. then complaining to me that it's still acting up. I have to tell them that their trans was never pulled due to the undisturbed grease on their trans bolts and lack of wrench/socket marks on the cleaner bolts. You would have a hard time believing me if I told you how routine this practice is and how often I see it

 

I forgot to mention the cheap, lesser than OE quality oil filter was the same grease covered filter that was on the vehicle before his 'oil change and spark plug service'. P.S. when you cut open a OE filter and compare it to a better quality filter you'd be surprised to find inferior even the OE's are.

 

I know these stories too: One of my staff many years ago went with her bright new red Alfa-Romeo into the dealer for the first oil change, you guessed it, the trainee forgot to put the oil plug back in. The engine fried. It took her forever and lots of hassles to get them to replace it.

Mendel: I have changed my oil many times in my life, I could do it here too. But I think I will just check the level now myself, and at the next change get some zero weight synthetic, have my local mechanic who I trust change it. People on the porsche board I visit too do not like Mobil 1 at all, I've read that one of the other brands, I cannot think of which one, is much better now than Mobil. Speaking of porsche, I was thinking when I was reading that thread last week, how relative everything in life is: Honda warranty's the hybrid batteries for 8 years, right? After that, the cost is $3k, or $1k??? more or less from the NYC rebuild place. Porsche boxer engines (that's the engine name, not the car name) used on modern porsches have a very high failure rate (the Boxster group had numbers like 16% for 1999-2003 cars), many within 3 years. If they fail under warranty, they swap em, give you a two year warranty on the rebuilt one. If they fail after warranty, in any case, replaced or not, they cost $12-14k to replace! Argh. I have owned 911s and 914s over the years, I was thinking of a summer boxster for the garage and nice days, but certified used (at 35% of the price). I am thinking again.

Mark

 

You can also pick up Honda's 0W20, from their parts department.

Still, my hunch is if the bill says 0w20 that's what they put in. Do they specify the grade on the bill, and also: how many qts/liters.