I have read about every post on this board during the past 3 years and have obtained a lot of helpful information. If it wasn’t for reading about 3 TSBs I would never have known about or have had repaired the rear suspension upper arms, the grunting noise while braking and the harsh engagement of the transmission after auto stop so I feel some obligation to help those of you with frequent SoC problems. (State of Charge)

I really enjoyed my 2007 Civic Hybrid for my first 27 months of ownership but then the SoC began dropping rapidly from a good charge to 1 or 2 bars. It would recover after 2 to 3 miles of driving with the same thing happening again a few miles down the road. This was not an occasional recal, it was happening numerous times a day. I think it happened every time I shut the engine off as it seemed to happen just a few miles after restarting the car. The mileage on the car was less then 8,000 when the problem began. When the SOC fell to 1 or 2 bars of charge I had NO assist and it would stay in this state for 2 to 3 miles while it was recharging making driving dangerous at times.

About a week after I noticed the rapid drop of the SoC (dropping not because of using the stored energy for assist) the IMA and Check engine lights came on so I made an appointment for service which resulted in 3 software upgrades. The software did get the Check Engine and IMA error lights to turn off but it did not fix the frequent falling SoC. I returned for the problem a few days later and Honda America reported “with the recent software upgrade performed, it changes the way the battery is charged and how it is then distributed out. The computer is always evaluating state of charge”. The SoC was falling prior to the new software so the new software was not causing the problem or did it correct it.

Put up with the problem for 2 months because I read the new software needs time to “ condition/ balance” the battery but it didn’t help me. The SoC would always drop when parked over night and unpredictably while driving so I returned to the dealer two more times for repair of the problem and both times Honda America reported “ The battery might be deteriorating but not sending codes or DTCs. Until stored DTC can be pulled indicating IMA battery needs replacing no replacement authorized by Honda at this time.” Honda America also reported once “The vehicle is currently operating as its designed specifications and Honda America is not authorizing the replacement of the IMA battery”. I never saw a recal during the first 2 ½ years of ownership but it must have occurred because it has to happen every now and then. I used the instrumentation while driving so my eyes were on the displays a lot. The 12 v battery was tested twice and both times found to be good. The 12v battery power reset correcting action was tried twice but the problem did not go away. My local Honda service dept did all they could to help me but could not replace the IMA battery without Honda’s authorization.

Until the error lights/codes return, Honda America claims there is no problem so when I returned home from the last attempted service I filed a complaint with the National Highway Transportation Safety Agency reporting the Civic Hybrid becomes unsafe to operate when it loses assist. I also filed a complaint with Honda America but no help there. I then filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau Auto Line. Instructions are in your Consumers Information Manual. Call 800-955-5100 for application.

After a lengthy process I went to a BBB Hearing and the decision came back in my favor, Honda had to REPURCHASE my vehicle under Lemon Law regulations! The arbitrator made the decision that the car met the requirement that it had a defect that substantially impairs its use, safety or value and was not repaired. (Honda would always say no problems found every time I took it in for repair. Honda America, not my local dealer)

Honda had testified I did not drive the car enough, all things deteriorate, the battery was still within its operating range, there was no safety issue and hybrid technology is still evolving. Honda provided no evidence such as test results proving the car was operating without problems other than the service invoices for my attempted repairs indicating no error codes found. The Honda reps made verbal statements such as the IMA function was well within the remaining useful life of that system but did not back anything up with evidence. Honda’s attitude in my opinion was that we say there is nothing wrong with the car so there isn’t. No error codes or lights so there is no problem but remember Honda got the lights to go out with their software updates at the beginning of the problem. Who knows what the update did to the error thresholds.

A condensed version of the arbitrator’s decision was: Honda did not inform the consumer that additional driving was necessary for the car to function properly. After 27 months the IMA system began to fail. It would not remain charged as it had previously resulting in dramatic and unpredictable fluctuations in charge and inadequate power to safely operate the car in all normal and foreseeable driving conditions and the failure of the car to perform as expected and required in its ordinary usage substantially impairs its safety. Because of the expected similar use of this car, replacement of the IMA is not a viable option.

I drive 60 to 70 miles per week and the Honda’s only mention of vehicle use is in the manual under storage “ If this vehicle is unused for over one month, the service life of the 158v nickel metal hydride battery will be reduced and the battery may be permanently damaged” Also: “the car should be driven every month, if stored, for about 30 minutes. This will keep the IMA battery charged and in good condition”. My use more than met these requirements.

I live in New England so heat is not the cause of the problem or is the cold because the car is parked in a heated garage. It does not sit in a hot/cold parking lot all day. Some of us just have defective hybrids and Honda will not officially acknowledge this although they do write new software trying to correct the “No Problem” rather than with a hardware fix. Recently read that Honda has released a software update that addresses the ‘no electric assist while at low SoC levels.’ The loss of assist was always my complaint when it went in for repair but Honda America always maintained I did not have a problem but here they are writing a solution to the very same problem I was complaining about!

If you are having similar problems with your car and Honda refuses to do anything until error lights/codes appear/reappear then take action and file with the BBB or your State’s Lemon Law agency if you still have time remaining on your 3 year/36,000 mile warranty. It costs you nothing and you do not need an attorney. Just make sure you INSIST that your case goes to arbitration if Honda refuses to repair your car after your final notice to them. You may not be as fortunate as I was but I would think a replacement of the IMA is likely. Stress the safety issue of no assist and that the car’s operation has declined from the way it did when you purchased it, at time of purchase you were not informed that the system will deteriorate to a point of requiring frequent recalibrations of the SoC which causes the electric motor to cease functioning at random times, is still covered by the 3yr/36,000 mile warranty and repair has been denied numerous times.

I’m not sure but I think the following documentation I had from my dealer was one of the key factors in my case. I had gone for service and on 3 separate visits, weeks apart and the technician(s) wrote something on the invoices that I have never seen mentioned on any forum. The notations regarded findings of SoC % and Useable charge %, numbers they found when putting the diagnostic test equipment on my car. Two of the tests showed SoC at 66% and one at 67% and for Useable the results were 11%, 13% and 16%. No one at the dealership could tell me what the numbers mean but I think it reveals something not so good for reasons I do not want to get into here. When you go in to have the frequent falling SoC ,resulting in NO ASSIST, problem corrected make sure the work invoice showing what was done shows the numbers I just mentioned because I really think they are important for your case if you take action. Another REALLY big help to me was a statement from the service manager stating he went for a drive with me and witnessed the SoC falling from a good charge to 1 bar, assist ceased working and auto stop stopped functioning. Getting this document may be a little difficult to obtain. (he doesn’t want to lose his job) Even though he witnessed and noted the problems he said that without Honda’s authorization he could not replace the IMA battery.

It would bother me when I read posts knocking the Civic Hybrid when I was enjoying mine so much but then all of a sudden mine was not working properly and Honda refused to do anything other than the one time when they updated the software and always saying they find no problem. My State requires Honda to warranty the hybrid battery for 10 years or 150,000 miles and other hybrid components for 15 years/ 150,000 miles but here my car was still covered by the 3 year/ 36,000 mile bumper to bumper coverage and Honda refused to take action saying there is no problem making me wonder what would ever happen in the years to come. I was a little leery of purchasing a hybrid but with the warranty required by this State I felt I had good coverage but trying to collect on any coverage I guess is a different story. I feel the technology has not been time tested so my next vehicle will be a regular vehicle.

I feel a class action suit regarding the frequent loss of assist has to be brought against Honda for all of you over the car’s initial 3 year warranty and still covered by the IMA warranty but how to go about it is beyond me. It is a serious safety issue for those of you with the problem. There was/is a class action suit against Honda because people were not getting the mpg as advertised by Honda but those numbers were EPA’s, not Honda’s and I actually sided with Honda’s on this suit. If a law firm took on a class action suit over the EPA numbers being used in Honda’s advertising then some firm should definitely take on the issue of the HCH-II safety issue regarding frequent no assist for miles and at unpredictable times. Those of you with time remaining on your 3/36,000 warranty should file with the BBB before your warranty expires.

I know many of you have had no problems with their HCH-II but I did and Honda would not help me. I am not implying that all HCH-II cars are lemons but mine was and officially declared one. When mine was running properly it was a really nice car. All I wanted was for Honda to get my car back to the condition it was when I purchased it and how it operated for the first 27 months of ownership but Honda would not or maybe could not do so.

I hope the time I have spent writing this helps someone. You should not be forced to drive a car that can and will put you in dangerous driving situations when you lose assist. I have read here where a couple of you recently have had their IMA battery replaced, something Honda didn’t seem to be authorizing . My repurchase decision was known by Honda around the middle of June but did not take place until last week. I wonder if my case made Honda think twice about refusing all IMA replacements. Good luck.

 

Interesting recap (although a little difficult to read without paragraph breaks ). I've been wondering when the first "lemon" was going to come up.

I'm at 37,000 miles now so I'm beyond that state, but I also am not getting recals as frequently as you describe. This might be an option for the '09 drivers who are experiencing daily recals, and maybe it will make Honda take a more serious look at this problem.



Edit: Thanks for the paragraph breaks!!!

 

My '08 was great until about three months ago, then its character changed completely - same behavior as Mainiax. The software updates only made it worse - now I get recals/no assist/no auto stop almost every time I drive it, along with dramatically reduced fuel economy.

I'm still working with the dealer, but my patience is wearing thin.

 

What a great story and a happy ending. I too had a couple of issues that could not be resolved by the dealer on my honda. While mine too was still under warranty I did not want to deal with the so called "unfixable problems" so I traded it in on new car other than honda.

 

Thank you for posting your story/experience. I believe you and I also think its important to see how things can be handled. Good job although a pain in the seat to go through.

I have a 2006 ( April) and had the frequent recal problem from about 50K to 55K. The IMA light came on, and I got a new 12V battery( for about $99) and a new battery pack under warranty. I have had ZERO recals since then, amazingly. When I take my car in, I write a formal note instructing for no software updates to be done on the SOC/IMA or any battery charge related issues for any reason.

 

Thank you so much for writing this up, and sharing the entire story with us. I don't have the problem you had with several RECALs each day but I have had several recals in the last 2-3 months (1500 miles or so) compared to almost none (may be 1? may be 2) in the first 2 years of the car's life. I am hoping it's nothing but a post like this is useful in being extra conscious about how Honda might not tell me what's wrong, it's up to me to find out.

I don't think a class-action lawsuit is unwarranted given how callous Honda's attitude appears to be with problems on their car (not just this one which has a considerable safety consequence but also others like the control arm one).

 

Thanks for taking the time to compose and post your story. It's going to be useful to a lot of people. BTW, I agree that a class action suit is needed, AND that all 07 HCH owners should deluge the NTSB with complaints, as well as notifying the Better Business Bureau.

 

2009 Hybrid here and have the daily recals even after the new software update. Thanks for this I only have 29k kms on mine and I am going to be in touch with HOnda Canada after my next visit if the dealer doesn't do something drastic.

 

thanks for the write up! Just got my car back from the dealership today from another software update. I told the service adviser just this morning that I felt that Honda had their head deep in the sand about the issues with these cars and its frustrating as a life long Honda owner about their responsiveness to the issues.

 

Mainiax,

Thanks for the detailed account. Is t very helpful.

Just curious, has Honda already taken the car back? Did they settle on a repurchase price that you were happy with? High KBB I hope!
-Dan