Reality Check
#11
12-26-2009, 06:39 AM
Re: Reality Check
It is not as simple as dealing with a normal maintenance item. I have had battery problems for going on a year now and my MPG has declined into the LOW thirties sometimes high twenties. Take the frustration of getting the run around by the dealer out of the equation and just consider the fuel efficiency decline. I am taking a hit at the gas pump even though I purchased and paid more for this car to get better gas mileage. So its simple to say I love this car and everything is great but this problem takes time to develop and the dealers have NO interest in doing anything about it until they get a warning light.
In fact every time I try to discuss it they tell me my mileage is normal, even after describing having no battery power and a FE that matches a regular civic. In the mean time I get horrible gas mileage, feel like I am having to push the car around town and growing a horrible attitude towards honda. I guess I just have to hope my IMA light comes on someday. The worst part is, this was my dream car and I was so excited to buy it...
In fact every time I try to discuss it they tell me my mileage is normal, even after describing having no battery power and a FE that matches a regular civic. In the mean time I get horrible gas mileage, feel like I am having to push the car around town and growing a horrible attitude towards honda. I guess I just have to hope my IMA light comes on someday. The worst part is, this was my dream car and I was so excited to buy it...
#12
12-26-2009, 10:54 AM
Re: Reality Check
It is not as simple as dealing with a normal maintenance item. I have had battery problems for going on a year now and my MPG has declined into the LOW thirties sometimes high twenties. Take the frustration of getting the run around by the dealer out of the equation and just consider the fuel efficiency decline. I am taking a hit at the gas pump even though I purchased and paid more for this car to get better gas mileage. So its simple to say I love this car and everything is great but this problem takes time to develop and the dealers have NO interest in doing anything about it until they get a warning light.
In fact every time I try to discuss it they tell me my mileage is normal, even after describing having no battery power and a FE that matches a regular civic. In the mean time I get horrible gas mileage, feel like I am having to push the car around town and growing a horrible attitude towards honda. I guess I just have to hope my IMA light comes on someday. The worst part is, this was my dream car and I was so excited to buy it...
In fact every time I try to discuss it they tell me my mileage is normal, even after describing having no battery power and a FE that matches a regular civic. In the mean time I get horrible gas mileage, feel like I am having to push the car around town and growing a horrible attitude towards honda. I guess I just have to hope my IMA light comes on someday. The worst part is, this was my dream car and I was so excited to buy it...
Just my two cents.
#13
12-26-2009, 11:55 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Coquitlam BC, Canada (Greater Vancouver area)
Posts: 729
Re: Reality Check
linx3566,
We've been getting depressing values for fuel consumption of late, around 7.0~7.2 liters/100km. Last night we did a 30+km run downtown from our suburb location. Just after setting out on the way back, the tank was really low so I filled, and reset the odometer.
From there it was maybe 5~10 km on city streets, followed by 20 km on freeway and onother 5 km or so on highway/city street. By the time we pulled in to our garage it was sitting on 4.6 l/100km. Just before we pulled off the freeway it was even lower, around 4.4. Seasoned hypermilers would not be impressed, my ceiling is their floor..., but for me it's good
Traffic was llight all the way, I was able to let the speed fall off a bit on upgrade and recoup on downhill, and kept a pretty constant eye on the real-time mileage, doing my best to keep it low. fully expect by the end of next week it will have climbed considerably, back to the mid-sixes, at least.
What this exercise said to me is that the potential for good mileage is still in there, but when you're doing shorter trips in cold weather the warm-up period is going to kill that mileage.
It could be similar for you. Installing and using a block heater (if it's not in there already), partially blocking the front grill, and consolidating/avoiding short trips will all help.
The block heater will run you around $160CAN, installed, through the dealer. You can DIY, but this is one item I'd defer to dealer, there's a heavy bolt that needs to be broken loose on the back of the engine, several components of the lower dash need to be removed to gain access, it involves a coolant change, in short a lot of hassle and not much saving.
The grill block's definitely DIY, see MSanto's excellent article here:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17560
It explains how to use foam pipe insulation sections, and what percentage to use at various temp's.
Keeping an eye on the real-time mileage will also help, if you're not doing that already. It's in this location:
We've been getting depressing values for fuel consumption of late, around 7.0~7.2 liters/100km. Last night we did a 30+km run downtown from our suburb location. Just after setting out on the way back, the tank was really low so I filled, and reset the odometer.
From there it was maybe 5~10 km on city streets, followed by 20 km on freeway and onother 5 km or so on highway/city street. By the time we pulled in to our garage it was sitting on 4.6 l/100km. Just before we pulled off the freeway it was even lower, around 4.4. Seasoned hypermilers would not be impressed, my ceiling is their floor..., but for me it's good
Traffic was llight all the way, I was able to let the speed fall off a bit on upgrade and recoup on downhill, and kept a pretty constant eye on the real-time mileage, doing my best to keep it low. fully expect by the end of next week it will have climbed considerably, back to the mid-sixes, at least.
What this exercise said to me is that the potential for good mileage is still in there, but when you're doing shorter trips in cold weather the warm-up period is going to kill that mileage.
It could be similar for you. Installing and using a block heater (if it's not in there already), partially blocking the front grill, and consolidating/avoiding short trips will all help.
The block heater will run you around $160CAN, installed, through the dealer. You can DIY, but this is one item I'd defer to dealer, there's a heavy bolt that needs to be broken loose on the back of the engine, several components of the lower dash need to be removed to gain access, it involves a coolant change, in short a lot of hassle and not much saving.
The grill block's definitely DIY, see MSanto's excellent article here:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17560
It explains how to use foam pipe insulation sections, and what percentage to use at various temp's.
Keeping an eye on the real-time mileage will also help, if you're not doing that already. It's in this location:
Last edited by Mendel Leisk; 12-26-2009 at 12:04 PM.
#14
12-26-2009, 09:20 PM
Re: Reality Check
linx3566,
We've been getting depressing values for fuel consumption of late, around 7.0~7.2 liters/100km. Last night we did a 30+km run downtown from our suburb location. Just after setting out on the way back, the tank was really low so I filled, and reset the odometer.
From there it was maybe 5~10 km on city streets, followed by 20 km on freeway and onother 5 km or so on highway/city street. By the time we pulled in to our garage it was sitting on 4.6 l/100km. Just before we pulled off the freeway it was even lower, around 4.4. Seasoned hypermilers would not be impressed, my ceiling is their floor..., but for me it's good
Traffic was llight all the way, I was able to let the speed fall off a bit on upgrade and recoup on downhill, and kept a pretty constant eye on the real-time mileage, doing my best to keep it low. fully expect by the end of next week it will have climbed considerably, back to the mid-sixes, at least.
What this exercise said to me is that the potential for good mileage is still in there, but when you're doing shorter trips in cold weather the warm-up period is going to kill that mileage.
It could be similar for you. Installing and using a block heater (if it's not in there already), partially blocking the front grill, and consolidating/avoiding short trips will all help.
The block heater will run you around $160CAN, installed, through the dealer. You can DIY, but this is one item I'd defer to dealer, there's a heavy bolt that needs to be broken loose on the back of the engine, several components of the lower dash need to be removed to gain access, it involves a coolant change, in short a lot of hassle and not much saving.
The grill block's definitely DIY, see MSanto's excellent article here:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17560
It explains how to use foam pipe insulation sections, and what percentage to use at various temp's.
Keeping an eye on the real-time mileage will also help, if you're not doing that already. It's in this location:
We've been getting depressing values for fuel consumption of late, around 7.0~7.2 liters/100km. Last night we did a 30+km run downtown from our suburb location. Just after setting out on the way back, the tank was really low so I filled, and reset the odometer.
From there it was maybe 5~10 km on city streets, followed by 20 km on freeway and onother 5 km or so on highway/city street. By the time we pulled in to our garage it was sitting on 4.6 l/100km. Just before we pulled off the freeway it was even lower, around 4.4. Seasoned hypermilers would not be impressed, my ceiling is their floor..., but for me it's good
Traffic was llight all the way, I was able to let the speed fall off a bit on upgrade and recoup on downhill, and kept a pretty constant eye on the real-time mileage, doing my best to keep it low. fully expect by the end of next week it will have climbed considerably, back to the mid-sixes, at least.
What this exercise said to me is that the potential for good mileage is still in there, but when you're doing shorter trips in cold weather the warm-up period is going to kill that mileage.
It could be similar for you. Installing and using a block heater (if it's not in there already), partially blocking the front grill, and consolidating/avoiding short trips will all help.
The block heater will run you around $160CAN, installed, through the dealer. You can DIY, but this is one item I'd defer to dealer, there's a heavy bolt that needs to be broken loose on the back of the engine, several components of the lower dash need to be removed to gain access, it involves a coolant change, in short a lot of hassle and not much saving.
The grill block's definitely DIY, see MSanto's excellent article here:
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17560
It explains how to use foam pipe insulation sections, and what percentage to use at various temp's.
Keeping an eye on the real-time mileage will also help, if you're not doing that already. It's in this location:
Thanks very much for your comments. You are absolute right on all counts. The cold weather here in Toronto is the biggest cause of the poor mileage but cannot be helped. Block heater is a good idea but not going to bother. In fact I am just going to live with the 6.2-6.5L/100km and be happy. I bought this car and expected a lot but after a week of driving have down graded my expectations. i am not prepared to drive like a hypermiler and even my driving gets me better mileage than my previous non hybrid car. So I will live with it. Thanks for the hints. Oh can you tell me with regards to the instant FE indicator when your engine is at idle where does it read...zeroL/100km? Cheers.
#15
12-27-2009, 10:09 AM
Re: Reality Check
Oh can you tell me with regards to the instant FE indicator when your engine is at idle where does it read...zeroL/100km
Yes!!
My winter fuel economy (that is, the average of all tank fulls of fuel that return an economy of 5L/100 km or worse) is 5.405L/100 km with 2.25 Eastern Ontario winters under my belt with this car. The absolute worst tank full was 6.02L/100 km and involved a white-out highway trip from Guelph Ontario to Detroit MI in January 2008.
I'll drive the legal limit (yep, 100 kph on the 401) everywhere, limit the use of the AC compressor, don't use full defrost mode in city driving (it cancels auto-stop), block the front end in the winter and avoid jack-rabbit starts and races to red lights......
Cheers
Mike
Yes!!
My winter fuel economy (that is, the average of all tank fulls of fuel that return an economy of 5L/100 km or worse) is 5.405L/100 km with 2.25 Eastern Ontario winters under my belt with this car. The absolute worst tank full was 6.02L/100 km and involved a white-out highway trip from Guelph Ontario to Detroit MI in January 2008.
I'll drive the legal limit (yep, 100 kph on the 401) everywhere, limit the use of the AC compressor, don't use full defrost mode in city driving (it cancels auto-stop), block the front end in the winter and avoid jack-rabbit starts and races to red lights......
Cheers
Mike
#16
12-27-2009, 10:30 AM
Re: Reality Check
Oh can you tell me with regards to the instant FE indicator when your engine is at idle where does it read...zeroL/100km
Yes!!
My winter fuel economy (that is, the average of all tank fulls of fuel that return an economy of 5L/100 km or worse) is 5.405L/100 km with 2.25 Eastern Ontario winters under my belt with this car. The absolute worst tank full was 6.02L/100 km and involved a white-out highway trip from Guelph Ontario to Detroit MI in January 2008.
I'll drive the legal limit (yep, 100 kph on the 401) everywhere, limit the use of the AC compressor, don't use full defrost mode in city driving (it cancels auto-stop), block the front end in the winter and avoid jack-rabbit starts and races to red lights......
Cheers
Mike
Yes!!
My winter fuel economy (that is, the average of all tank fulls of fuel that return an economy of 5L/100 km or worse) is 5.405L/100 km with 2.25 Eastern Ontario winters under my belt with this car. The absolute worst tank full was 6.02L/100 km and involved a white-out highway trip from Guelph Ontario to Detroit MI in January 2008.
I'll drive the legal limit (yep, 100 kph on the 401) everywhere, limit the use of the AC compressor, don't use full defrost mode in city driving (it cancels auto-stop), block the front end in the winter and avoid jack-rabbit starts and races to red lights......
Cheers
Mike
Thanks for that...I get 6.2L/100km best...I also have no AC use, no jack rabbit start and drive 100Km/hr on the highways. I drive speed limit of 60km/hr on the secondary roads. Can't understand why I cannot get better mileage. I am starting to feel that their is something wrong with my car but unable to determine how to go about T/S it. the dealer said everything is fine and they really dont care about what mileage you get as long as the car runs. I picked up the car a week ago and they did all the certifying stuff like oil change. Maybe the put the wrong oil but cannot figure out if that is so because they said that they put the right oil. Got to take their word for it. Cheers.
#17
12-29-2009, 05:37 AM
Re: Reality Check
Maybe the put the wrong oil but cannot figure out if that is so because they said that they put the right oil.
Well, I do all my own maintenance thus am assured of correct 0W-20 viscosity oil (I use Mobil One Synthetic to help things out). It would not be the first time that a dealer put in 5W-whatever oil.
That said, winter with snow/rain on the road will cut into the economy. Also, as you learn to drive the car (yea, it has little subtleties) to max economy (give yourself about 3 months to learn the auto-glide tricks and auto-stop at most traffic lights without creeping up) and get your self a wind blocker to aid in warm-up, things will improve......
Cheers
mike
Well, I do all my own maintenance thus am assured of correct 0W-20 viscosity oil (I use Mobil One Synthetic to help things out). It would not be the first time that a dealer put in 5W-whatever oil.
That said, winter with snow/rain on the road will cut into the economy. Also, as you learn to drive the car (yea, it has little subtleties) to max economy (give yourself about 3 months to learn the auto-glide tricks and auto-stop at most traffic lights without creeping up) and get your self a wind blocker to aid in warm-up, things will improve......
Cheers
mike
#18
01-22-2010, 10:36 AM
Re: Reality Check
Update ... we got our warranty-replacement IMA battery right after New Year's and have had ZERO recalcs with it. Gas mileage hasn't snapped back completely, but it's been kind of chilly here the past few weeks.
We are good now for the remainder of the 8 year/80K mile IMA warranty, but seriously questioning keeping the car after it runs out. Would the IMA battery go bad again out of warranty? May be too much of a risk to find out. Will probably take the $1,000 lawsuit settlement deal and buy a regular Honda next time. Shame, hybrids are wonderful when they work correctly, but the battery technology isn't that far along as of 2010 ...
We are good now for the remainder of the 8 year/80K mile IMA warranty, but seriously questioning keeping the car after it runs out. Would the IMA battery go bad again out of warranty? May be too much of a risk to find out. Will probably take the $1,000 lawsuit settlement deal and buy a regular Honda next time. Shame, hybrids are wonderful when they work correctly, but the battery technology isn't that far along as of 2010 ...
#19
01-22-2010, 02:36 PM
Re: Reality Check
I think this is why 98% of HCH IIs don't have any problems--their batteries are within spec. There seems to be a group of 2006 owners and another group of 2009 owners who are experiencing more problems. I think our batteries were made during Chinese New Year or something...
Regardless, I think there is a good chance that your new battery will be in the 98% camp instead of the 2%. If I were in Vegas, I would take those odds any day.
#20
01-25-2010, 08:41 AM
Re: Reality Check
Interesting about the nature of interconnected individual cells. We went to drive a Prius a while back and the salesperson stated that Toyota's battery design enables replacement of individual cells.
Could this be a difference between Honda and Toyota's design? I did scan some Prius boards and saw almost no mention of recal and battery replacements as we are seeing with our HCH-IIs.
Could this be a difference between Honda and Toyota's design? I did scan some Prius boards and saw almost no mention of recal and battery replacements as we are seeing with our HCH-IIs.
