I have some issues I'd like to discuss about my 2008 Civic hybrid. I'd love to hear your comments.

Winter. The stock Dunlops are near useless in my climate in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Think very cold with lots of snow and bad road conditions. I installed Michelin snow tires and things are somewhat better.

I have found that the hybrid portion of the drivetrain is either useless or a detriment in my climate. For example. The battery will not charge until the engine has warmed. For my 8 km commute the engine often never reaches half warm even after using the block heater for 3 hours first. This means that the battery has to charge while driving, using extra fuel and low engine temperatures cause inefficient combustion. The electric motor assist is too strong during a launch almost always causing the wheels to spin. The end result is that the battery charges in a very inefficient manner and that charge is almost completely used up by spiining the tires. What a waste. It seems that a simple software modification could help this a lot.

My fuel economy has gone from a summer average of 6 l/100km to about 10 l/100 km. I'm using almost twice the fuel in the winter.

There is no heat to be had in this car. Even at moderate winter temperatures it is very hard to clear the windows. The rear defroster stays on all the time sucking extra energy. I had to install electric seat heaters to avoid hypothermia which again uses extra energy. I'm also often fighting with the climate control system to maintain at least a semi-clear windshield.

It seems to me that Honda has given very little consideration to winter performance. Since this is the time (at least in my part of the world) that using the car is very necessary and is certainly going to hurt economy I think that regional software updates could help a lot of my issues. For instance, allow the battery to charge at lower engine temperatures and scale back the assist when the outside temperature sensor reads below freezing.

The throttle is way too sensitive for winter driving. Slow speed turns, bumpy curves and even lane changes (over the ever present snow humps between tire tracks) can cause the tires to spin somtimes inducing a slide. I sure wish the thottle could be moderated.

I spent all summer bragging about how much I like my hybrid and encouraging others to buy the HCH. Come winter I've now been telling friends to avoid this car usually after they ask me why I'm driving my V8 truck and not the Civic.

I'm curious to see whether other owners, especially those in extreme climates, have the same issues or perhaps some insight into making things a bit better.

 

You're living in extreme Winter conditions. Don't blame the car for that.

The OEM Dunlops are fine for Winter, but proper snow tires are wise in some places. Learn to start the car from a stop without spinning the tires. You can do this, and the car can be started on very slippery roads, if you can control your accelerator use. It's hard in Winter because boots take away some of the foot sensitivity.

It's true that the car can't generate much heat to help itself in Winter. You could consider blocking some of engine grilles.

 

+1 There is at least one recent thread that talks about how to use 3/4in tubular pipe insulation to do just this. I'm currently 50% blocked, and it does seem to help the warm-up delay, though it hasn't gotten cold enough to really tell if it helps with mileage.

 

Hello Andrewe, I use a grill block also. I don't have extreme conditions as you do but maybe my idea can help you also. Check out > https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...blocker-20559/
I have a different car, but it works the same way.

 

Hello Andrew,

I can't offer much help either, other than agreeing with the others about the extreme climate of Manitoba. If it's the same place my colleagues told horror stories from, like the parking lot in front of the mall full of trucks - all idling - while people were shopping, and tires getting round just about when you reached the destination. That's not very cold, it's extreme.

It seems your main concern is the bad FE. I also see worse FE over here at temperatures around -5 -- -10 deg. C. I am too seeing that the engine is actually so efficient it struggles to heat the cabin. I think we just have to accept this as a fact, that when it's very cold the relative advantage of a hybrid is reduced, since normal cars have plenty of waste heat to use for the cabin. Wonder what FE a V8 truck has when driven 8 km after a -40 deg C cold start. 30 L/100 km?

In colder regions over here people install heaters also for the cabin, used together with the block heater. This is basically no more than a simple electric heating fan, but made specifically for car use. Because I suspect a lot of the engine heat is actually used to heat the cabin when you're driving, it could improve your FE as well. And reduce the use of rear window heater. And if the windows are cleared from ice every morning (by the cabin heater) they usually stay clear during the day - unless it's snowing.

If the windows are fogging it helps keeping them clean. A new car interior emits greasy and oily stuff into the air and onto the windows. The stuff can't be seen but it triggers fogging. With such a new car (2008?) you need to clean them often. I have been surprised by how big difference it makes. As for the climate control I haven't been able to figure it out either. I just recently realized there is a MODE button as well, to manually control the air flow. Might be worth experimenting with.

 

Thanks for the replies people. As I suspected these issues are fairly common. I just wasn't prepared for the extent.

rgx. You brought up an excellent idea and most likely a solution to my heat and defrosting issues. Since my commute is so short the interior warmer you mentioned should work very well. It's too bad my parking spot at work can only run one device, ie block heater only. At home I will just place the heater on the floor, on a stand, and remove it before I drive off.

I do highly suggest heated seats for others in cold climates. I think it's the best $150 I ever spent on a car.

My boring little story...

This morning was -32. The Civic was very unhappy to start. I don't think I've heard it go 5 cranks before. Then the wait for the transmission to go, a few seconds. The drivetrain is actually groaning. I pity it a little. I get up to 80 km/h right away and decide to us D2 to increase the revs. I drive 2 kilometres like this. As I turn onto the next road the steering is making an awful grinding noise. It sounds similar to the noise bad CV joints make, but crunchier. Now my pity turns to worry. During the next two turns the noise quietens. After 4 kms the climate control turns on the fan. By the time I am home after driving 8 kilometres at 60 - 80 km/h (35-50 mph) my temperature gauge reads three bars (I sure wish I knew how many degrees 3 bars represents) and my windows are half defrosted.

 

I can sympathize completely, andrewe. I spent all summer bragging about my car, only to hear my wife complain ever since winter started (Michigan isn't as extreme as Winnipeg, but it's bad enough). She makes several very short trips each day (first grader to school, then younger kid to pre-school, then maybe a short drive to the store, then pick them up, all separate trips). Over all these trips, the car never gets off one single bar on the temp gauge. The fuel economy is about 60% of what it was in summer time. No kidding, I saw 29.x mpg a few weeks ago! She's taken to idling it for a good 10-15 minutes before going anywhere. I realize that idling a hybrid seems like complete stupidity, but it's not like I'm going to tell her that she should have to drive in complete cold either.

I installed grill blocking (only about $1 for each 4 foot foam segment at Home Depot, plus some tie wraps) covering 100% of the grill openings. This has helped a lot to retain engine heat during short (say, 20 minute) stops. We had a freak day last month where it warmed up to 50F outside and the gauge didn't budge above normal, idling or highway. Your outside temp gauge will read wrong all the time though.

I also had the block heater installed. This has been a huge improvement, assuming we remember to plug it in each night. Total warmup time is about half, but still not great for those super short trips.

I agree with your comments about throttle sensitivity, though I don't know if it's the throttle cal exactly, or maybe the CVT. Even with my snow tires, I find it hard to modulate the car between grip and slip sometimes. When the snow is really deep (like on slow neighborhood streets), I use "S" or even "L". In "L" you can actually build up a good charge while drudging through the snow!

Like the throttle/CVT, I find that the transition when stopping can be odd. I mean, I know that the car is trying to transition from coasting to regen to physical brakes. On grippy pavement, it's fine. On snow, these braking transitions tend to make it harder to know exactly how close you are to reaching your friction limits. Realistically, I just lean on the ABS a lot more than I otherwise would need to.. no big deal though.

I do love the car, but I agree that the hybrid aspects of it tend to be a liability during winter time in very cold climates. As an automotive engineer, I understand *why* these behaviors are happening, and I bought the car knowing full well that they would happen. But like you, I guess I didn't expect them to annoy me quite so much.

 

andrewe- One thing that may help in your area is to block the rad. with a pcs. of cardboard completely. It is a bit of a job as you must remove the black cover and there is not much room to work in order to get the cardboard in there. This method helps get the bars up quick. If it gets up to above freezing keep a eye on your temp. thou. Good luck, H

 

Just like to second the up-the-page mention of installing a block heater, totally warranted in Winnipeg.

 

I had the block heater installed when I bought the car new. This has to be the only model car sold in Manitoba that does not automatically come with a block heater. They are absolutely necessary here.

We're right now in the heart of the coldest part of winter. -36C this morning or roughly -36F for you yanks. I got 3 bars on the temperature gauge. I try to be optimistic and am just thankful that my commute is short.

As of this week the Civic is using exactly twice the amount of fuel it did in the summer. I toggled the button so I could see it in mpg and I was shocked to see the number 21. I must say I am disappointed. However, spring is not far off. Another month and I'll be enjoying balmy -10C weather (what's that? 15 above F?).

Unfortunately I haven't had the time (actually, it's just so **** cold out that only work and emergencies bring me outside) to block the rad or install a heater. Rest assured, I will be prepared for next winter though.

Thanks again for the replies and moral support.