Hi everyone! I'm working with the Center for American Progress and we just launched "Project Phin" a series of short videos that feature Gennifer Garner, Ben Affleck, Matt Damon and others.

The mission is to generate awareness about what we can do to save our environment through alternative energy. The videos are available at CleanMyRide.org. Let me know what you think of the first one with the corncob covered Affleck.

 

OK, i looked at it. Interesting. I have recently converted my diesel bus to run on Waste Vegetable Oil - which is different from BIOdiesel (even biodiesel 100); which should be mentioned as a very sustainable option --- basically individuals take used vegetable oil (corn, soybean, etc) from restaurants and filter it at home and put it directly into the diesel car/truck/bus/ship that they get around in.

I hope you do make progress on the GRASSES, as opposed to corn.
Also, can regular gas vehicles be modified to run w/ E85? I ask because it was a relatively simple 1/2 day process to get our diesel bus to run on Veggie Oil. If existing cars that run on gas could have their engines modified to accept E85 you could have a lot more success than people having to buy new cars.

Currently i know of one gas station in Los Angeles (brentwood) that is going to carry this fuel. Are their others?

 

um..Isn't the whole e85 fuel thing a big GM attempt to fake improved emissions? These flex fuel cars get worse mpg while running on alternative fuels, and many states don't even offer it? Here in CT I'd have to drive to "campus Mobil" in NY state for a refuel that isn't a state owned facility.

Would be better to feature clean diesel, or hybrid, or even full EV concepts I think...just my humble opinion

 

E85 is great for the corn belt states.
And even if you simply keep it within 500 miles of the Mississippi, that leaves more gasoline for the coasts.
Ethanol costs $1.15 per gallon to manufacture, and sells in many corn belt states for $2.15 per gallon.

Ethanol gives less MPG, true. But every drop of E85 you burn this year, is grown back next year. It took 100 million years to make the gasoline you burned today.

If it takes 20% more ethanol to go the same distance as gasoline, but costs 30% less ( $2 a gal. vs. $3 a gal. ) then it is still a good buy for the consumer.

I would buy ethanol every tank, so long as it was about 20% cheaper.
More than 20% cheaper is like getting free gas in your tank, or money in your wallet.

And would you rather have 25 cents of every dollar you spend on fuel go to Iraq? Or a mid-western farmer? I'd rather keep the money in the USA.
Even if ethanol cost slightly more than gasoline. ( it doesn't right now )

If gasoline drops to $1.50 a gallon, ethanol is going to be a tough sell.
Right now, it's an easy sell, and a win-win in my book.

 

Does anyone even use e85thanol? I can't imagine the average walmart shopping american wants to spend more money on fuel for their vehicle. I honestly think most people are selfish and dont care even if it were available everywhere. I hope that I am wrong with that assumption though.

I wish everyone would switch over to an alt energy source, other than petroleum based fuels.

 

What are you talking about Mike?

E85 ethanol costs LESS MONEY than pure gasoline.
E85 is cheaper for the "Wal-Mart" shopper.

It is just hard to find unless you are in corn belt states.
READ MY KEYSTROKES

Ethanol costs less per mile than gasoline!

Last summer ethanol was selling for $1.99 a gallon when gas was $3.
Now, it is about $2.20 per gallon, still less than gasoline.

 

Not sure if these points have already come up in this thread:

Yes, E85 is cheaper, even after factoring in lower mileage.

But it's not scalable (increased demand for corn is already causing cheap-tortilla shortages in Mexico, for chrissake, and that's with virtually no demand for the stuff here yet).

And it WILL void your warranty if you run it in a vehicle whose owners manual only allows up to E15. I was pretty puzzled by the part of the Wikipedia entry cited earlier in this thread that showed long-term running of E85 did no damage. That's inconsistent with every other study and shred of data I've seen on this stuff. (Maybe all the emissions gear on the test vehicle was disconnected?) The temperatures and emissions would be all wrong.

Maybe my imagination is too limited, but I just can't imagine it being a good idea.

--doug

 

I live in Indiana. We have an ethanol plant about every other county at this point.

Still cant buy the stuff without a bit of a drive.

The big disapointment to the local farmers with E85 production is that bad or spoiled corn that used to just be burnt, now is a great product to fermint(sp?). So farmers have sold some corn, but now E85 plants are being smarter about what grade of a product can be used to make E85. If you have ever smelled(sp) spoiled corn in a grain silo, you will discover it is well on its way to E85!

I know there is massive research going into E85 to make it be more efficient then gasoline. There are some websites that talk about adding a certain amount of acetone into e85 to make it more efficient.

I am sure some economist can tell us how huge the net benefit is to our US economy with e85 money staying local.

Many grains can be used to fermit, along with grasses and certain types of moss.

 

One reason etahnol is cheaper is that the U.S. Government subsidizes production

 

Correct wrt scalability. But keep in mind, as interest in FlexFuel grows, so does interest and investment in producing it from different feedstocks, like cornsilk and switchgrass. In Brazil, cars run on E100 made from sugar cane. I would venture that early in the process, there may have been a run on sugar prices, but things are apparently very stable now. That demonstrates two key points....1) E85 does not have to equal corn. 2) When supply meets demand, prices stabilize.

So don't do that!! There are many vehicles being manufactured that are capable of running on E85. For those vehicles, operating with E85 100% of the time WILL NOT VOID THE WARRANTY! The engine and fuel systems were designed to handle it.

It is not a silver bullet, but it is still a very good idea if the goal is reduced dependence on foreign oil supplies and a consumer alternative to increased oil prices. As gpsman1 has pointed out, E85 costs less to produce than E10 and is TYPICALLY priced lower. I've seen some gas stations who artificially price 20 cents below E10, no matter what E10 is priced at. But if you figure that sensitivity to fluctuations in petroleum pricing only has a 15% impact on each gallon, pricing for E85 should be lower than and much more stable than pricing for E10.

The great thing is, FlexFuel compatability is a $0 cost option for the vehicle. GM, Ford, and Chrysler all eat the cost of equipping a vehicle to be FlexFuel ready.

Peace,

Martin