regardless, this seems to be more of a software issue than anything. And Nissan did say they tweaked the system

 

hey look

http://www.boston.com/business/artic...safety_issues/

what have I been saying? that stupid shim is not the fix for sudden acceleration

 

To paraphrase what I replied to a friend on this:
I think he's just stating the obvious. What else can they do? It's like trying to fix a bug. You can fix the known repro cases and do defense in depth. Here it's the recalls and adding "smart throttles". Then, keep trying to find different means of reproing the problem from in house testing (including accelerated environmental testing), investigations, failed parts, problem reports, etc.

Their specific fixes are for their known repro cases/conditions. It's pretty **** hard to fix a symptom where you don't have a repro case of it. Hence, the defense in depth of the floor mats, adding smart throttles (ignore gas pedal when both are applied) in conjunction w/continued investigation and finding ways to trigger such a failure.

Go lookup safety complaints on virtually any vehicle on NHTSA's site that's sells in quantity that has been out for a little while. You'll find non-zero #s of "unintended acceleration" (usually under "vehicle speed control") claims or other scary reports (wheels falling off, fires, brakes failed, etc.). How many of those are real problems vs. user error, bogus reports or the driver shifting the blame?

There are 35 complaints against the 2010 Prius' "air brakes"! Guess what? The Prius doesn't have air brakes. Those are found in buses and trucks.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/More-d...69762.html?x=0

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylt=AmjWCW9AV5...pairs-18445798

I don't know how much more Toyota can withstand...

 

One thing that's worrisome even to Toyota fans is that fact that so many vehicles are being touched by mechanics and the error rate is probably non-zero. For the million vehicles that have been repaired so far, even if only 0.1% of the repairs are bungled and/or create problems, that means 1000 vehicles now have problems.

 

well the recall that they have now probably doesn't screw up the car that much anyways, they are just removing a pedal, adding a shim, and reinstalling the pedal. the important part of this recall is the reprogramming of the brake-throttle override and that doesn't seem to be working like it should be

 

I posted this elsewhere and some of you already tried this, but I'll post again here.

OK, first let me say that I have a Nissan Altima Hybrid. So what? Well the Nissan bought the Hybrid technology from Toyota. So in just about every aspect, my Altima is a Prius under the hood so needless to say, I am concerned. I even wonted a Prius rear end another car a few days ago. And yes, if a Prius is behind me, I will pull over, no joke

So today, after hearing and seeing this guy talk about how there can't be any brakes left because he was pressing on them so hard I got to thinking, WWLD (What would Larry Do) Since I am a hands on kind of guy, what Larry would do is to find out what would happen.

Remember, I'm driving a Nissan, bigger engine, bigger car, same hybrid stuff.

I got onto a unpopulated straightaway today, got her up to 60 and then I floored it. as I hit 70 I took my left foot and slammed the brakes. Naturally, I was not expecting the car to actually STOP, but stop it did so quickly in fact that I had to quickly regain control of the car.

Now here is the interesting point: Remember my right foot had the gas pedal floored and my left foot had the brake floored. The transmission seemed to disengage from the engine and the engine began to free rev. Like reeving it in park. This is why it stopped so quick. Thinking about it, this is what happens on a Hybrid. When we take our foot off the gas, the motor freewheels and when we step on the brakes, the evo motors on the wheels capture the motion and recharge the batteries. Only if the cars speed increases enough, will the engine kick back in to assist with braking. This happens on big hills if you don't hit your brakes. Remember that our engines freewheel when you take your foot off the gas. The engine has to be told by the computer not to.

In a typical car, you would need to stand on your brakes much harder than I did to get it to stop so quickly, but it will still stop. Yes, I tried that too.

OK, as with any good test, you repeat. I did this three more times. Same results.

Now for the next part. First on a straightaway. I am cruising at 60 and I hit the off button. Nothing, I hit it again, nothing. This time I hit it and hold it it. The engine shuts off. I am able to stop with minimal power steering and no power brakes. Again I do this until I am comfortable.

Now for the big part. When the car is shut off, the wheel might lock up. Well, I don't like might. Will it? Let's see. I find a spot where if the wheel locks up in a turn, I am still safe. I get her up to speed, shut her down and coast to the turn. I then crank the wheel to perform a full 90 degree turn. At no point did the steering wheel lock up on me. I was able to turn right and left.

I am awfully sorry for these people getting killed, but the frustrating part for Toyota, and years ago Audi, is the in ability to duplicate the problem. I am still thinking that like what happens to me some times, my big feet end up hitting both the gas and the brake when I apply the brake. This does not happen in the Altima, but it does in the GMC, a previous Saab and a Camaro I had.

I wonder if any of these have the little black box so many manufactures are putting in their vehicles today. Yesterdays event with the Prius in California, the driver said that the brakes must have been gone. Were they? I'd bet each of us know what burning brakes smell like.

I remember an old "get off my tail" trick I use to perform on my Z-28. I could hit the brakes and floor the gas at the same time. The brakes were enough to bring that 300 hp engine and car to a stop and a quick release of the brakes and the car shot out of the hole like a sling shot as the car behind you was in a panic skid. One minute they think they are buying your trunk and the next, you are no where in sight. Yeah, I know its stupid, but I was young. Point was that if those brakes could stop 300 hp, how can these brakes not.

Oh, forgot to add this. I do this all the time when hypermiling the car. It is very easy to throw it in neutral and pop it back into drive. This guy said he was scared to throw it in reverse. Well, guess what. In a hybrid, if your foot is off the gas, you can throw it in reverse. Nothing happens, but my reverse lights come on with my back up camera. At worst, he might have blown the tranny, not a bad thing if your car is being propelled. I'll sacrifice a tranny or engine to make it stop.

 

i think what you have mentioned is absolutely correct, but the company claims it for the other use.

Does it make a real sense?

since so much research will be done every part of the car.

 

just wanted to comment that SLP (Larry)'s post above was one of the most entertaining and informative I have read in quite awhile. Thanks for sharing your test results.