19180442 Battery Discontinued - GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars


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Old 02-09-2017, 08:56 AM
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Default 19180442 Battery Discontinued

The main Powerdrive Battery, GM P/N 19180442 has been discontinued. Anyone know of a superceding part number?

Is there any way to replace single cells yet on the Tahoe like some claim to be able to do on the Prius?

Not having any problems - yet. Just want to be prepared.

Thanks!
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: 19180442 Battery Discontinued

No NiMH based hybrid can have individual cells replaced; however, they can have modules, sticks and subpacks replaced - depending on type.

The feasibility of doing so is unknown, but the six cell modules, of which the 19180442 has 40, are identical to the Prius (28)/ Camry(34)/ GS450h(40)/ CT200h(34)/ Altima Hybrid(34). Given that the other models referenced can have their individual modules replaced, one would assume it's possible on the GMs.
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Old 02-10-2017, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: 19180442 Battery Discontinued

Good to know! My hope is that a competent hybrid mechanic is versed in such repair.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: 19180442 Battery Discontinued

You can buy Prius cells on Ebay


This will absolutely fit and work, same part.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1824373...&ul_noapp=true


NOTE: superseded part number "sensor"? Right price and core charge for battery


http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oe-gm/84141586

Last edited by Hillbilly_Hybrid; 02-15-2017 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: 19180442 Battery Discontinued

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hillbilly_Hybrid View Post
You can buy Prius cells on Ebay


This will absolutely fit and work, same part.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1824373...&ul_noapp=true


NOTE: superseded part number "sensor"? Right price and core charge for battery


http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oe-gm/84141586
Nice find.

I would voice caution on eBay module purchases. Resting voltage tells you almost nothing about the health of a module or lack thereof. I have dozens of modules with great voltage that will hold voltage for MONTHS yet their capacity is complete and total crap.

The last thing you want to do is to put an untested module into a pack and then realize it's junk and have to start over. Avoid sellers that don't guarantee capacity.

"testing" at 7.5V with a voltmeter gives no more indication of a module's health than does the tire pressure of a tire indicate how much wear is left.
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Old 02-16-2017, 04:07 AM
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Default Re: 19180442 Battery Discontinued

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Originally Posted by S Keith View Post
Nice find.

I would voice caution on eBay module purchases. Resting voltage tells you almost nothing about the health of a module or lack thereof. I have dozens of modules with great voltage that will hold voltage for MONTHS yet their capacity is complete and total crap.

The last thing you want to do is to put an untested module into a pack and then realize it's junk and have to start over. Avoid sellers that don't guarantee capacity.

"testing" at 7.5V with a voltmeter gives no more indication of a module's health than does the tire pressure of a tire indicate how much wear is left.
Very good point. Another question about using Prius cells: They are apparently different enough that if you go from gen 1 to 2 or 2 to 3 you have to replace all the cells. Will only the gen 2 substitute for the 08 Tahoe?
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:26 AM
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Default Re: 19180442 Battery Discontinued

Gen1 are physically different (slightly shorter) and should be avoided for this, their age and their tendency to leak.

Gen3 Prius are VERY hard on their batteries as are any HSDIII platforms (Camry, GS450h, Altima, CT200h) and all seem prone to intermittent cooling problems. I have yet to evaluate a HSDIII vehicle that had a battery that could be reconditioned to an acceptable level. Gen3 will technically work, but their performance would be in question for me.

That leaves 2004-2009 Gen2 Prius modules as your safest bet.

Steve
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:46 AM
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Default Re: 19180442 Battery Discontinued

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Originally Posted by Hillbilly_Hybrid View Post
NOTE: superseded part number "sensor"? Right price and core charge for battery
http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oe-gm/84141586
LOL. That's quite an expensive "sensor". So it's about $2500 (plus core). Not toooooo bad. If you replace this unit, is it just a swap in/out or do you need to reset computers and such?

I've been reading on replacing battery modules, and the effort to balance and charge and discharge seems very time consuming. Perhaps worth while to save $2K.

I also read that sometimes if you have to replace just a module or two, the rest are likely to follow behind soon. But still, $100-$500 at a time is sometimes easier than $2.5k at once.
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: 19180442 Battery Discontinued

I don't have any direct experience with the GM hybrids, but if it's anything like the Toyota stuff, I would expect the process of disconnecting the 12V for the removal/installation would "reset" the computers.


The reconditioning process on a module level is extremely time consuming. Depending on the equipment and using a robust test procedure, you're looking at 2 weeks minimum. With most equipment people buy, you're looking at longer.


Module replacement without balancing is likely to need another module replaced every 3-6 months. 10-20% of the modules are deteriorated in addition to the one that failed. Balancing extends the life of those.


"Easy" mode is whole-pack reconditioning. Buy a HV LED power supply and charge the whole pack for about 30 hours with some kind of active cooling. Discharge the pack with 3X 110V light bulbs in series to progressively lower voltages and bulb wattages - this can typically be done in under a week.


If you decide to tackle this, for the love of all that is holy, DON'T wire all the modules in parallel to equalize their voltage. It's a complete waste of time. While their resting voltage will equalize, the amount of capacity that transfers between paralleled modules is minimal even if left for days. I cringe every time I see that someone has fabricated an elaborate harness for this purpose - a waste of time, money and effort.


Also, the moment you subject the pack to an in-car load/charge, the module voltages will diverge according to their respective SoC. You can have a module at 60% SoC and another at 15% with EXACTLY the same resting voltage. I think we can all agree that modules at those states of charge will not behave similarly.


The "easy" mode on balancing is the aforementioned charging for ~30 hours. This FORCES all cells in the pack to be at 100% SoC - the only way you can truly "balance" NiMH.


Steve
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Old 02-20-2017, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: 19180442 Battery Discontinued

Well, my 12v battery looks good, but it looks like I'm going to have to attack the 300v battery after all.

The P0AC4 and P061B haven't resurfaced, but still getting some jerking. Probably why I bought a cherry 08 HyHoe for only $10k. But I figured with a new batt pack, it's still a good deal.
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