Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

  #21  
Old 02-14-2019, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

got 2 out of 3 of my testing pieces today (leads and power supply). charge/discharge unit scheduled for Monday delivery. Bummed out a bit, I really wanted to do some testing this weekend.....
 
  #22  
Old 02-17-2019, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

It is raining here this afternoon so I decided to spend a few minutes in the ole workshop. Went ahead and ran another standing voltage test. (xls sht attached)
I understand that the test is pretty much meaningless but it is interesting that they have all dropped a little bit, just waiting on the Reaktor charge/discharger unit to continue. Will maybe have some time during the week to start if the Reaktor comes in Monday. I can hardly wait!
 
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Old 02-20-2019, 08:45 PM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

Reaktor 1000W 30A charger/discharger unit showed up monday but the neighbors well pump went out and I spent my battery testing hours helping them for two days . Now tonight I finally unboxed the new unit and set it all up. I have done 1st discharge and 1st charge on module #1 Seems to take a very long time to run a complete cycle (hours) #1 module showed 59ohm 7.91V discharge 2999mAH charge 4998 mAH currently running 2nd discharge cycle and then quitting for the night. at this rate it will take over a month to do all 40 LOL. The Reaktor does require some attention but does not need to be constantly watched Once I see about how long each cycle takes I can do other things in between cycles, right now I am just drinking beer and staring at the readout screen LOL. This is going to be a fun project but will require several cases of beer.....................
 

Last edited by dnt1010; 02-20-2019 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 02-23-2019, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

So making some progress but I need to figure out how to make the Turnigy 1000W 30A Reaktor log the data and then figure out how I can access it. The Reaktor instructions are not clear on all this. Anyone got any tips???
No way that I will be able to monitor this charge/discharge cycle and catch the aMH readout at the end of each cycle and get it written down.......................
 
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Old 02-27-2019, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

Jaime I have been running the discharge/charge/discharge/charge and have 22 out of 40 modules done. I have read your write up a few times but I cannot figure out Exactly how you generated the data for the Excel spreadsheet column marked Final Cap Recond??. Is that generated from just running the same discharge/charge/discharge/charge program a 2nd time and listing the 2nd discharge capacity there? Just trying to match up the best that I can so the data it is more comparable. Let me know if you get a chance. i still have a few days of gathering the base data anyway.
Oh by the way my son helped me set up the data logging program, that is a cool feature and saves all the discharge/charge/discharge/charge data in a file so it can be easily accessed without babysitting the Reaktor. You just have to swap leads once a cycle is complete. This would not be doable for me without the data logging, it would be too time consuming. It has been taking taking about 2 to 3 hours to run the 2 cycles on these module (10 minute delay between D and C) I just swap the leads whenever i see that a cycle is complete and hear the Reaktor Beeping.
Here is your Excel sheet partially filled out. I am also going to test the 6- modules that Bumblebee had sent me for comparison. iI will be very impressive if they are close to full capacity modules at over 10 years old (mine look severely deteriorated so far) ........... I might be done with all modules by the end of the upcoming weekend.
Phrase of the day "We Make It Real"
 
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File Type: xls
2009 Tahoe.xls (35.5 KB, 11 views)
  #26  
Old 03-01-2019, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

That "Final Cap Recond" column is not very useful. It was my attempt to recondition the cells using a variety of methods but there was not much of an improvement. Even if you were to somehow double the capacity of your lowest cells, they would still be too low in capacity to be useful. That is why I changed it to another Discharge cycle in the blank worksheet I provided, since it was a waste of time to try to recondition them.
 
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

BAM done with the 40 modules in my old 10 year old +200k mile GM Two Mode Hybrid battery pack. Spreadsheet "attached" Looks like the modules are degraded quite a bit. Now I am wondering if I should try to recondition a few to see what happens?
NOTE: The Discharge/Charge time for 2 complete cycles varies widely by the modules health, on the better modules towards each end of the pack it took over 4 hours, other weak ones in the middle of the pack were less than 2 hours. If a person did this very much they would definitely want to have a Turnigy Quattro or some additional single chargers so that multiple modules could be done at the same time. I will try to remember to keep the thread update as I try some reconditioning on the weak modules + also test the bought modules for comparison. I just hooked up the first bought module a minute ago, if they are "Like New" it might take over 5 hours to run the cycle!! This will be very interesting.
 
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File Type: xls
2009 40 modules Tahoe.xls (37.5 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by dnt1010; 03-03-2019 at 10:28 AM. Reason: added info about how long the cycle is
  #28  
Old 03-07-2019, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

Used module testing spreadsheet "attached" . Note: these are older modules but still seem to still have pretty good capacity for their age. Would probably be good in an older pack that has lost a few modules and the remainder are pretty equal. I saw no need to post the graph curves but they are very interesting. I am sure that some of these companies that refurbish the packs have some very sophisticated machines that can match the old modules together properly and easily.
My feeling from my very limited testing and internet searching is that most refurbished packs out on the market will end up at around 60 to 70% of a new packs capacity but will probably run a few years if done properly.
 
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  #29  
Old 03-08-2019, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack

Originally Posted by Jaime View Post
I swapped 40 low-mileage modules into our 2008 Tahoe battery pack and now my brother says it drives like a completely different car. I bought Two 2016 Prius C battery packs with 20 modules each. They were removed from salvaged cars with 16K and 20K miles from Sacramento and San Diego, CA.

Here are some of the problems experienced with the original battery pack:
  • Sluggish acceleration from a stop
  • Had to be light on the gas pedal from a stop to prevent the Internal Combustion Engine from stalling during the Auto-stop to ICE transition. Previously suspected the Aux Transmission Fluid Pump but it hasn't happened since putting in the “new” battery.
  • Unable to go very far in electric mode
  • Unable to go more than about 10-15mph in electric mode
Some of the codes that appeared with the original battery:
  • P0AC4 - Powertrain Control Module Requested MIL Illumination
  • P0BBD - Battery Pack Variation High
  • P0C32 - Battery Cooling System Performance
The original battery pack has a build date of November 8, 2007 (based on the serial number) making it more than 11 years old. The original modules inside had a build date of October 31, 2007. They were taken out at 165,000 miles.
Here are the results of the tests I did on the original modules:

I'd like to thank S. Keith for the guidance he provided during the compilation of this data and the installation of the "new" modules into the Tahoe battery pack.
What is your top speed before it switches to ICE my tops out at 29MPH before it switches over then I have E-assist to about 40MPH it has a battery pack from 2009 based on the serial number digit L with 84,300 miles on it California Binned Batteries

How much caked on dirt on the FAN i thought about taking it apart to clean everything(esp the BUS bar) for maximum battery performance.
 
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: Analysis of an 11 year old, 165K mile battery pack



I believe that 29 mph is the automatic cutoff for EV mode? I have seen E-Assist kick in quite a bit, it just seems to kick in randomly. (I think there is an algorithm in the control computer) I have never noted the top speed at which E-assist will work. I was thinking that L = 2010 but would have to check that? I am going out of town for a bid walk-through today so I will try to remember to check on the E-Assist at highway speeds. On the dirt on my cooling fan blade wheel, it is fairly clean but my screen had some dirt built up on it. I had some very minor corrosion on the bus bars Note: mine appear to be SS material bus bar, not the copper bars like in a lot of the youtube videos. Battery reconditioning seems to have improved a couple of my very end modules but does NOTHING for the bad ones in the middle of the pack, I guess the middle ones are just "used up"
Interesting that I did not have any specific modules that had a dead cell or really any indication of them being that much different from each other. 90% of them appear to just be old / worn out and unable to hold good capacity. One thing I have learned from all this is that anyone with fair mechanical skills and that are safety conscience can replace modules. I plan on posting a few pics of where the voltage build back up when i put the bus bars back on. IT IS ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE to electrocute yourself if you are not careful with the bus bars on and the covers removed. You would have to be pretty careless though.........As Will Smith says in getting jiggy wit it "watch you step you might fall if you try to do what i did"
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