Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

  #1  
Old 10-21-2018, 09:09 PM
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Default Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

EDIT: For n00bz looking to reproduce it on their own... this was accomplished as follows:

SETUP:
  1. Need Android phone or tablet
  2. Need OBDII bluetooth adapter. I used this one:
    https://www.amazon.com/BAFX-Products-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner/dp/B005NLQAHS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1540518749&sr=8-2&keywords=BAFX https://www.amazon.com/BAFX-Products-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner/dp/B005NLQAHS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1540518749&sr=8-2&keywords=BAFX
  3. Purchase Torque Pro for $4.95
  4. Download the ZIP file, unzip the .CSV; copy the CSV file to your phone and add to Torque per these instructions: http://torquebhp.wikia.com/wiki/How_..._extended_PIDs
  5. Flag the GM PIDs for logging in Torque Pro
  6. Setup a display showing SoC, Current and the 20 block voltages on the real-time screen
  7. Settings icon - start recording when you want to log, stop when done, email CSV log from same menu.
TEST:
  1. Open Torque, display your battery data but do not record.
  2. Get the A/C going full blast
  3. Drive around until SoC is > 60%, higher is better. Use very light acceleration and moderate braking to favor charging.
  4. Come to a stop wherever you want to do the test
  5. Place in Neutral
  6. Turn on REAR defroster
  7. If you haven't already, turn A/C & rear A/C on full blast, fresh air, minimum temp
  8. Turn on head lights
  9. Start Torque Recording
  10. If possible, wait until you get to at 40% SoC. Go lower if you can.
  11. When terminating test, place in Park.
  12. Kill A/C, rear defroster and lights
  13. Allow car to charge at idle.
  14. Once car shuts off, or 5 minutes have elapsed, stop logging.
  15. Email the log in CSV format to yourself
  16. Post here, and I'll chart it for you and give my colorful commentary.
--------------------------

All information is as reported by Torque Pro. Zip of CSV containing Custom PID for Torque Pro attached. Note the current is completely wrong, but it's usually right when you are looking at the sign, i.e., "-" is charge and positive is discharge.

Never had occasion to do it myself, but encountered a 2008 Yukon with 124K miles throwing P061B and P0AC4 codes, so I seized the opportunity.

At time of testing P061B was active but P0AC4 was "pending".

Here is the entire 37 minute recording, mostly idling with A/C bull blast. There's a drive starting around 18:11 and a "controlled" discharge test for 2 minutes starting around 18:14:35:


For convenience, the horizontal lines are spaced 0.2V. A healthy battery should have all blocks within that range, so anything outside of that is suspect.

As you can see, block voltage deviation was pretty bad. No matter what I did, I couldn't get Torque Pro to pull data more than about once every 2 seconds, so that's definitely an issue that creates uncertainty; however, the magnitude of the deviations pretty much put the nail in this battery's coffin.

The following chart is a zoom-in to the 2 minute discharge following the drive:


Don't remember what happened there near the middle, but basically this was accomplished by running A/C full blast, running rear defroster and headlights while auto stopped. Was probably around 8-9A of load.

It's worth noting that this was only from about 56% to 46% SoC. V01 was consistently the highest during discharge and the lowest during charge indicating this is likely the only semi-healthy block.

The fact that 19 blocks are spread through a 0.8-1.0V range WELL BELOW the strongest apparent block screams that this battery has suffered massive permanent damage.

Looks like 100% of charts posted confirm that the GM Hybrid batteries are basically destroyed when it comes time to replace them.

I would encourage anyone that has purchased a replacement battery to repeat this exercise and post here to document how a healthy battery behaves. If you're in the Phoenix are, swing by, and I'll do it for you...
 
Attached Files
File Type: zip
GM-Torque.zip (501 Bytes, 80 views)

Last edited by S Keith; 10-25-2018 at 07:03 PM.
  #2  
Old 10-22-2018, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

Great data and explanation Keith
 
  #3  
Old 10-25-2018, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

The owner of this vehicle was unable to locate a dealer that would install for less than about $4800. He located a hybrid shop that is allegedly getting him a new GM battery for about $4K OTD. He wants to run the test again with the new battery.
 
  #4  
Old 10-26-2018, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

This n00b say thanks to S Kieth for the details. I will be gathering equipment/software over the next few days. I am enjoying this 2009 Tahoe Hybrid with 195k so far, the technology is fascinating. I would hazard a guess that GM spent well over $100,000.00 per unit to build these. The best I can tell from my internet search for Tahoe Hybrid sales data there were only 9972 TOTAL Hybrid Tahoes built and sold from 2008 to 2015. If you have one you may wish to mothball it as it should sale for millions years down the road LOL
 
  #5  
Old 12-22-2018, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

Thank You S Keith !!! Excellent information. Could you take a look at my log and tell me what you think? Andy
 
Attached Files
File Type: csv
  #6  
Old 12-22-2018, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

afbrasile , The attached CSV file only has GPS coordinate information. I would remove it if it has the coordinates of your home that you would not want to be public.
Looks like you may have forgotten to select the battery PIDs to be logged and, instead, Torque logged the GPS information. You have to go into the Torque settings and go to the Logging section to select the PIDs to be logged. Unselect all except for the battery information PIDs.
 

Last edited by Jaime; 12-22-2018 at 02:21 PM.
  #7  
Old 12-22-2018, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

Thanks Jaime, I'm a noob at Torque.
 
  #8  
Old 12-28-2018, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

Ok, I'm going to post my .csv hoping for help. A little back story on the vehicle, it's a 2010 Chevy Tahoe 6.0L hybrid. The check hybrid light keeps coming on. It also, when the light comes on won't move until the vehicle is put back in park, shut off, and restarted. The stored code is a P0BBD.
It was taken to the dealer and the dealer says there's nothing wrong with the battery. I'm an experienced mechanic, but new to hybrid technology. I removed the battery pack, thoroughly
cleaned all connections in vinegar and used scotchbrite on everything. While I had all the buss bars off I conducted a load test on every cell and found what you'd think, weaker cells in the center of the pack. (4.5 amp [email protected] and 120 seconds) My lowest reading was 7.22 volts on number 20, and on the outboard cells were 7.43. I drove the vehicle for approximately 60 miles with no more hybrid lights and logging with torque. I posted my .CSV only to find out I screwed up (Thanks Jamie) logging only my gps coordinates. It's my Daughters vehicle so I set her phone up to log the correct data pids. Not really sure what was captured, but the hybrid light came back on today and wouldn't move. (pretty scary for a young lady in traffic).
Not sure if it pertains but at the exact same time the info center said " service power steering". I'll also attach my findings of the load test.
Any help would be thoroughly appreciated, Andy
 
Attached Files
File Type: csv
  #9  
Old 12-28-2018, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

If that . CSV doesn't have enough info, I'll take it for a drive this weekend following S Keith's directions
 
  #10  
Old 12-28-2018, 05:36 PM
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Posts: 37
Default Re: Torque Pro Custom PID and Battery Test Results

Originally Posted by afbrasile View Post
Ok, I'm going to post my .csv hoping for help. A little back story on the vehicle, it's a 2010 Chevy Tahoe 6.0L hybrid. The check hybrid light keeps coming on. It also, when the light comes on won't move until the vehicle is put back in park, shut off, and restarted. The stored code is a P0BBD.
It was taken to the dealer and the dealer says there's nothing wrong with the battery. I'm an experienced mechanic, but new to hybrid technology. I removed the battery pack, thoroughly
cleaned all connections in vinegar and used scotchbrite on everything. While I had all the buss bars off I conducted a load test on every cell and found what you'd think, weaker cells in the center of the pack. (4.5 amp [email protected] and 120 seconds) My lowest reading was 7.22 volts on number 20, and on the outboard cells were 7.43. I drove the vehicle for approximately 60 miles with no more hybrid lights and logging with torque. I posted my .CSV only to find out I screwed up (Thanks Jamie) logging only my gps coordinates. It's my Daughters vehicle so I set her phone up to log the correct data pids. Not really sure what was captured, but the hybrid light came back on today and wouldn't move. (pretty scary for a young lady in traffic).
Not sure if it pertains but at the exact same time the info center said " service power steering". I'll also attach my findings of the load test.
Any help would be thoroughly appreciated, Andy
Took a quick look at the CSV. The current data looks a bit weird. Double check your formula in Torque.
Block 1 Voltage goes to ZERO for about 3 seconds at rows 1249-1252 while all the other blocks stay stay above 15V. Not sure how this can happen unless the sensing wire going to the block has an intermittent disconnection.
Blocks 4-14 spike down after row 1050 as shown in the attached chart with 8 and 9 being the worst blocks.
Block 1 is the one closest to the fan.
  1. 14.5
  2. 14.39999962
  3. 14
  4. 12.69999981
  5. 12
  6. 9.80000019
  7. 7.30000019
  8. 2.4000001
  9. 1.79999995
  10. 6.9000001
  11. 11.10000038
  12. 12
  13. 12.60000038
  14. 13
  15. 13.30000019
  16. 13.5
  17. 13.5
  18. 13.80000019
  19. 14.10000038
  20. 14.39999962

That P0BBD (Battery Pack Variation High) means the block voltages vary too much from each other (greater than 1.5V for at least 3 seconds). This means you pretty much need a new battery. An option is to get enough low-mileage salvage car battery packs (with similar mileage and origin) to get the 40 modules you need for the Tahoe battery. I bought two Prius C battery packs with 16K and 20K miles to put in our Tahoe which I expect to last at least 80% of the life of a new pack. Saved considerably compared to a new one and even cheaper than a refurbished battery pack with modules of unknown origin and life expectancy.

 

Last edited by Jaime; 12-28-2018 at 06:01 PM.

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