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Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

  #11  
Old 03-08-2008, 06:54 AM
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Wink Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

Originally Posted by atlaw4u View Post
I admire the mileage of the Civic i-CTDI but I also love the styling of the 5 door hatch. We saw quite a few while visiting Europe last year and hope Honda brings it to the States soon.
I notice Popular Mechanics seems very pro-diesel and did a report on the VW Polo:

Another manual transmission vehicle being compared to the automatic Prius.

Popular Mechanics also likes the Jetta diesel:

(Both photos come from Popular Mechanics web site.)

I notice these Popular Mechanics high mileage claims occur on the highway and not from the EPA test protocols. Any idea about why that may be the case?

One of the reasons I prefer the EPA test protocols is all vehicles follow the same driving profile in well defined, standard conditions. It is a vehicle test that can be reproduced by anyone.

Bob Wilson
 
  #12  
Old 03-09-2008, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

That is correct 1stpik. Another factor to consider is the option of using biodiesel which, in most areas, also costs more than gas but may be more environmentally and politically frirendly.
 
  #13  
Old 03-12-2008, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

Biodiesel is less expensive than regular diesel here in Vancouver, B.C. Owners also have the opportunity to brew their own Biodiesel for much lower fuel costs, but it's not very popular.

Originally Posted by 1stpik View Post
Gas currently costs $3.10/gal. Diesel costs $3.70/gal.

So any diesel car MUST get 20% better mpg than a gas/electric hybrid JUST to match the cost efficiency. In other words, for a diesel to compete with a Prius, it has to average 55 mpg just to match the cost of the Prius @ 46 mpg.

And that assumes EQUAL purchase prices.
.
Diesel normally costs more than petrol in cold climates due to demand for home heating oil, etc. particularly in Winter season. Batteries are also less efficient in cold weather, if that makes any difference. Diesel prices will likely dip below 87 octane petrol prices again in the Summer.

Since you're comparing overall vehicle costs, we may need to factor in the extra performance of the Civic's larger displacement diesel engine (8.6s 0-100km/h compared to 10s for the Prius), diesels' high resale value, or their inheritently longer powertrain life.

What I'd be really interested in seeing is a orange-to-orange hybrid vs. hybrid comparison, i.e. gas hybrid vs. diesel hybrid. The diesel hybrid vehicles in Europe are yielding very impressive MPG figures. There's a reason FedEx or UPS are opting for diesel-electric hybrid for their multitude of small delivery trucks that cover countless miles. The joe-public diesel-hybrid vehicle however will likely be more expensive than the gas hybrid counterpart, so one still won't have a significant advantage over the other.

Cheers to high MPG vehicles regardless of fuel used!
 

Last edited by malone; 03-12-2008 at 10:23 AM.
  #14  
Old 03-12-2008, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

One issue missed here is that this test was essentially 100% highway driving.

This is the worst case efficiency for the hybrid and best case for the diesel.

In city driving the hybrid would likely do a lot better than a diesel.
 
  #15  
Old 03-15-2008, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

Not a lot, but a bit, maybe. Diesels are ****ed efficient in city driving due to their ability to get incredibly lean.
 
  #16  
Old 03-15-2008, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

D a m n is a bleep word here? Well I'll be forked!
 
  #17  
Old 03-15-2008, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

Originally Posted by MikeT View Post
Not a lot, but a bit, maybe. Diesels are ****ed efficient in city driving due to their ability to get incredibly lean.
Add regenerative braking and they will be even more efficient. One interesting approach might be a modified "Jake brake" that exhausts into a high pressure container. Later, when the diesel needs to accelerate, the previously compressed air might be used instead of fuel for the initial acceleration. But as it stands, current diesels convert their kinetic energy when stopping into brake pad heat and wear.

Bob Wilson
 
  #18  
Old 03-20-2008, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

Here's an article on a similar head-to-head test drive done in Europe. Try to look past some of the more inflammatory statements. Remember, Europe is HEAVILY biased towards diesel power.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol...cle3552994.ece


Peace,

Martin
 
  #19  
Old 03-20-2008, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

Biodiesel from algae had a nice peace in Time last week. Seem to be catching on, hopefully this will bring the price down considerably.
 
  #20  
Old 03-20-2008, 08:29 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Civic Diesel v. Toyota Prius for ultimate MPG

Originally Posted by livvie View Post
Biodiesel from algae had a nice peace in Time last week. Seem to be catching on, hopefully this will bring the price down considerably.
Wow! Talk about the ultimate factory -- THE OCEAN AND PASSIVE SOLAR!
 

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