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VW diesels?

  #11  
Old 08-21-2007, 10:58 AM
finman's Avatar
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Default Re: VW diesels?

Yep, an electric car only does 90% of the population any good. the other 10% would suffer the gas-only or hybrid fate.

just a choice! Let everyone have a choice to drive an electric car...or continue over the cliff burning gasoline. In the land of infinite choices (how many popcorn flavors or ice cream flavors)...only ONE way to power our transport machines??

Not everyone will use an electric car...does that mean it should NOT be a choice?
 
  #12  
Old 08-21-2007, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: VW diesels?

Originally Posted by finman View Post
Yep, an electric car only does 90% of the population any good. the other 10% would suffer the gas-only or hybrid fate.
90%?

I didn't say electric cars are a bad choice but face the reality of modern American lifestyles.

By 2012 or so I'd guess there will be multiple choices for electric cars out their from, the Volt as well as the Toyota knockoff that is sure to follow.

Most family's could have a garage with at least one Volt, or other plug and go car, I know if the volt is real it will fill my Honda spot in another few years. But then the rest of the garage slots will be filled with (hopefully) hybrid SUV's or crossovers.

People buy cars for a reason, the HCH is to be a cost effective commuter to and from work. Larger cars are meant to do the jobs small commuters can't do or can't do well.

If you believe that small electric commuters designed for efficient around town transit will replace everyone’s Yukon or Pilot that answer is no, Instead they will be replaced by hybrid Yukon’s and pilots, or even alternative fuel hybrids.

Plus sometimes you drive not to get from A to B but to enjoy the thrill of moving with the top down. In that case a Tesla roadster might be nice, but again 250 miles is a small range for the price, plus Tesla would need to get a better reputation to replace the "Ultimate Driving Machine"
 
  #13  
Old 08-22-2007, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: VW diesels?

re: net pollution of plug-in hybrid vs. hybrid vs. conventional, see the following on Calcars:
http://www.calcars.org/vehicles.html#2 Even on a coal based grid, PHEV's are cleaner, and as stated above, the thought is that you can control the pollution much more easily at a central power plant than you can on millions of vehicles. Also, electricity is much more efficient.

As to biodiesel CO2 emissions, I agree that we don't want to encourage the destruction of rain forests to grow palm oil, (the sugar cane referenced in the story isn't used for biodiesel, just ethanol). The bio I purchase currently in the U.S., (perhaps 14 tankfuls in a year), comes from Soybeans grown in the Midwest. Growing them consumes CO2, so relative to producing diesel from petroleum, (so called dino-diesel), I understand that it's more or less neutral with regard to adding CO2 to the atmosphere. As to vehicles I'd rather not be stuck behind, I'd place dino-diesel burning trucks and cars much higher on that list than the same burning bio. With bio, once the vehicle is warmed up, I don't notice any smell at all.

As to electric vehicles not having sufficient range for your occasional long distance trip, that of course is the argument for PHEVs. Run on pure electric most of the time, but have the ability to run as a regular hybrid when you need to. You've probably heard all of this, but if not, please see http://www.calcars.org
 
  #14  
Old 08-22-2007, 01:41 AM
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Default Re: VW diesels?

Originally Posted by ken1784 View Post
I personally don't want to drive following a non-clean diesel.
What do you do if you find yourself behind a bus or a lorry then?
 
  #15  
Old 08-22-2007, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: VW diesels?

Originally Posted by mashuzu34 View Post
re: net pollution of plug-in hybrid vs. hybrid vs. conventional, see the following on Calcars:
http://www.calcars.org/vehicles.html#2 Even on a coal based grid, PHEV's are cleaner, and as stated above,
They are using quite old data before 2004 Prius came out.

They wrote "The "well-to-wheel" emissions of electric vehicles are lower than those from gasoline internal combustion vehicles. California Air Resources Board studies show that battery electric vehicles emit at least 67% lower greenhouse gases than gasoline cars -- even more assuming renewables. A PHEV with only a 20-mile all-electric range is 62% lower (see printed page 95 in the 2004 study)."

It was based on 99.9 ton for 200,000 lifetime miles (500g/mile) on conventional vehicles vs 38.1 ton (190g/mile) on PHEV-20.
Again, the 2004-07 UK Prius is rated 104g/km (167g/mile).

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  #16  
Old 08-22-2007, 02:58 AM
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Default Re: VW diesels?

Originally Posted by McKlone View Post
What do you do if you find yourself behind a bus or a lorry then?
I'll take short break at some parking lot.

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  #17  
Old 08-23-2007, 11:10 AM
finman's Avatar
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Default Re: VW diesels?

Yep, the reality of REALLY expensive gasoline and REALLY low MPG vehicles will change people's 'wants' pretty quickly.

MANY people do indeed use bigger 4WD vehicles for their intended purpose. MANY more simply drive alone to get milk in their large over-compensated vehicles.

The time is quickly coming that that kind of excess will cease to be the norm...and none too soon. Heck, I even evolved over the past 4 years of Prius ownership coming from a Jeep and a Pathfinder to discover I don't "need" all this iron to move my butt to the store and back.

Plug me in...I'm ready.
 
  #18  
Old 08-27-2007, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: VW diesels?

Diesels do not need to be any more polluting than gasoline vehicles.

Before the big push for exhaust cleanup in the late 1970s, diesel emissions were naturally much cleaner than gasoline emissions. The only reason gasoline is cleaner now is because a huge amount of R&D money has been spent on cleaning up gasoline exhausts, to the point of having to resort to using platinum, palladium and ruthenium based catalysts to clean it up - some of the rarest and most expensive metals on earth!

However, diesel engines are only now beginning to receive the same attention, and great progress is being made.

Ricardo here in the UK have just announced a SULEV diesel engine, which makes it much cleaner than existing Tier 2 bin 5 limits.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007...o-announc.html
 
  #19  
Old 08-30-2007, 05:19 AM
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Default Re: VW diesels?

Originally Posted by Sungod18 View Post
I always hear about VW diesels and their great gas milage. I was even mentioning them to someone today as an option for someone who isn't ready for the hybrid path.

Then she comes back asking where does VW sell diesels because they are not featured on the company's US website.

I check myself and all I can find is a $68,000 beast that will use a V10 turbocharged diesel???

So does Volkswagon not offer diesels anymore? Are they just a luxury item for extra power and only available for the eliete? With stricter regulations on cars coming why are they offering V10 engines??? Or does a turbo diesel not count in a company's MPG average?
Is this the sort of thing you're looking for?

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...wagens_pol.php
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new_cars...olo_bluemotion

Only for sale in Europe though I believe
 

Last edited by stoner; 08-30-2007 at 05:24 AM.
  #20  
Old 08-30-2007, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: VW diesels?

Originally Posted by Sungod18 View Post
I always hear about VW diesels and their great gas milage. I was even mentioning them to someone today as an option for someone who isn't ready for the hybrid path.

Then she comes back asking where does VW sell diesels because they are not featured on the company's US website.

I check myself and all I can find is a $68,000 beast that will use a V10 turbocharged diesel???

So does Volkswagon not offer diesels anymore? Are they just a luxury item for extra power and only available for the eliete? With stricter regulations on cars coming why are they offering V10 engines??? Or does a turbo diesel not count in a company's MPG average?
In 2008 the VW Jetta TDI will become available again in the US, this time with the new 50-state legal Common-rail 2.0 140Hp/320Nm TDI. AFIK also the VW Tiguan will enter the US market with the same engine.
 

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