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What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

  #1  
Old 05-19-2008, 06:31 PM
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Default What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

My brother in law, who is a a Toyota salesman insists that it's a waste of $ to buy a hybrid. He says there are many autos that will give you 40mpg or better and cost far less. He gives examples like the 2009 Corolla, and the VW Golf.

I don't know what to make of this. I just want to maximize what it costs to fuel up and not do it in a "clown" car.
 
  #2  
Old 05-19-2008, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

It's not that simply. You have to look at the type of driving that you expect to do. If you do mainly highway or steady (>45 MPH) driving, you will be hard pressed to see substantial better fuel economy over a comparably small car. However, the more "city" driving you do will show substantially better gas mileage. Not to mention the reduction in emissions by the hybrid. Not to mention hypermilling.......

Your brother may want to research those cars mentioned. In the US, until the TDI (aka diesel) Golf (renamed Rabbit, again) is available, the most economical VW has a 2.5L 170HP 5 cylinder. The Corolla also has a S model that uses the larger Camry 4 cylinder that is also less economical. Both of those are roughly 20/29 EPA vehicles.
 
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Old 05-19-2008, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

No i.c.e. car gets 40 mpg.

This is a semantic trick that people play when they try to disparage hybrid cars. They cite the best possible highway mpg ratings under the old EPA guidelines, and claim that THAT is the mpg the car "gets," meaning "averages."

For example, the i.c.e. Honda Civic used to have an EPA rating of 30 city / 40 hwy. It no longer does, but people used to say, "You can get 40 mpg from a regular Civic, so a hybrid is a rip-off." The regular Civic never AVERAGED 40 mpg. In fact, it barely averages 30 mpg. But that doesn't matter to people who are pushing a political opinion.

So, don't fall for the unsubstantiated claims about hybrids vs. regular cars. Check out the REAL mpg figures from actual hybrid owners (many of them here come with photo proof), and visit http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg . It shows the true AVERAGE mpg on every make and model of car.
 
  #4  
Old 05-19-2008, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

Originally Posted by 1stpik View Post
No i.c.e. car gets 40 mpg.
Two words: Geo Metro

I had a "Pregnant Roller Skate" for a short bit during college. Sure, you'd lose to a kid on a tricycle in a head-on collision, but it got great gas mileage.
 
  #5  
Old 05-20-2008, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

Originally Posted by tollyho View Post
My brother in law, who is a a Toyota salesman insists that it's a waste of $ to buy a hybrid. He says there are many autos that will give you 40mpg or better and cost far less. He gives examples like the 2009 Corolla, and the VW Golf.

I don't know what to make of this. I just want to maximize what it costs to fuel up and not do it in a "clown" car.
The hybrid Prius and HCH2 will probably give you the highest FE of any US car - if thats your goal. If you think these are clown cars, go for a different one.

Many drivers of non hybrids (corollas, yaris, civics, aveo, fit, rabbit) are pulling in FE above 40mpg but thats probably because they are driving for high FE. This probably nets them a 10mpg boost over typical drivers.

good luck
 
  #6  
Old 05-20-2008, 06:02 AM
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Default Re: What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

Hi Nick,
Originally Posted by tollyho View Post
My brother in law, who is a a Toyota salesman insists that it's a waste of $ to buy a hybrid. He says there are many autos that will give you 40mpg or better and cost far less. He gives examples like the 2009 Corolla, and the VW Golf.

I don't know what to make of this. I just want to maximize what it costs to fuel up and not do it in a "clown" car.
Let me suggest you start with http://www.fueleconomy.gov/. A couple of their excellent links look at small cars or family sedans. If you get in the mood to actually buy one, use Ebay to see what prices have been running for new ones.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson
 
  #7  
Old 05-20-2008, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

Originally Posted by 1stpik View Post
No i.c.e. car gets 40 mpg.
It would be more correct to say that no current ice car is rated 40 mpg by the EPA in the US. Plenty of non-hybrid cars can easily achieve over 40 mpg if you drive them "like a hybrid". Got the proof right here:

https://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/...onhybrids.html

Some "Smart" cars are getting even better mileage than hybrids. The Metro, Rabbit, Jetta, Golf, Yaris, Echo, Del Sol, Accord (diesel), Civic and CRX can all beat 40 mpg.

Wayne hit 47 mpg in a PZEV Accord! There is a Civic diesel listed at 61 mpg!

I understand not all these cars are available everywhere, and I understand that some of these numbers are much higher than EPA. Anyhow just a friendly reminder of what can be done with the right car and the right techniques.......
 

Last edited by BigTuna; 05-20-2008 at 11:59 AM.
  #8  
Old 05-20-2008, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
It would be more correct to say that no ice car is rated 40 mpg by the EPA in the US. Plenty of non-hybrid cars can easily achieve over 40 mpg if you drive them "like a hybrid". ...
And here in lies the issue:
  • hardware
  • driver
Does the horse or the jockey win the race? It turns out both are needed but if you put the same jockey on two different horses, the outcome will be similar to putting another jockey on the same horses. The better horse will come in first followed by the slower horse. That is what the EPA tests provide.

I have no problem with claiming a superior driver can achieve superior results but how does that help someone trying to buy a car? ... It doesn't.

You can buy a car but you can't buy driving skills. But this son-in-law car salesman sounds quite willing to sell a 'nag' car and say "Your superior driving skills will overcome the difference." Don't buy into this nonsense.

There are many things in life that can lead people astray. Sad to say but there are not enough hours in the day to deal with each one. But to dismiss the EPA tests by claiming it is just 'driving skill' ... there lies a wide and broad path I won't be taking.

Bob Wilson
 
  #9  
Old 05-20-2008, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

Ok Bob have it your way.

From the EPA site you linked to:

1990 Geo Metro XFI EPA figures (adjusted to the current 2008 model year method):

43 city
51 highway
46 combined

Note that the original window sticker EPA (old method) was:

53 city
58 highway
55 combined

 

Last edited by BigTuna; 05-20-2008 at 02:25 PM.
  #10  
Old 05-20-2008, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: What about non hybrids with high mpg ?

Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
Ok Bob have it your way.

From the EPA site you linked to:

1990 Geo Metro XFI EPA figures (adjusted to the current 2008 model year method):

43 city
51 highway
46 combined

I'd post a pic but ImageShack is not working correctly.
That works for me! I've always felt used cars were a terrific resource.

Bob Wilson
 

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