Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
#1
11-05-2010, 04:49 PM
Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
This Hybrid Electric-Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle
solar electric vehicle
packs some serious alternative energy punch – and it was built pretty much from the ground up by one man!
It features a generator that charges a capacitor bank with a flip of a switch.
The generated solar power can charge any 2 cells/caps at one time via 4 rocker switches.
Each of the booster packs are turned on/off via another group of rocker switches, and when turned on power the motor directly combined with the throttle output from the controller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPzUlzIoY1k&hd=1
solar electric vehicle
packs some serious alternative energy punch – and it was built pretty much from the ground up by one man!
It features a generator that charges a capacitor bank with a flip of a switch.
The generated solar power can charge any 2 cells/caps at one time via 4 rocker switches.
Each of the booster packs are turned on/off via another group of rocker switches, and when turned on power the motor directly combined with the throttle output from the controller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPzUlzIoY1k&hd=1
Last edited by THEKPV; 11-13-2010 at 12:46 AM. Reason: added another pic
#2
11-13-2010, 12:41 AM
Re: Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
In Photovoltaic vehicle convert solar power into electric power using semiconductor. Today's we need a such kind of vehicles, which can save money & environment. I hope, in future Photovoltaic vehicle will be getting more demand.
#3
11-22-2010, 06:57 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1,797
Re: Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
We've all seen the old antique videos of people along with their machines around the turn of the 20th century trying various flying machines. Some try and fip-flop themselves into the air, others just crash.
This, to me seems to be a modern-day version.
I applaud the research and inventiveness of both peoples and hope their dream never ends. However this cycle just doesn't add up.
Combined battery capacity is 424watts and based on the generator specification in the video I'll assume he's using a 12v system so the batteries store about 35ah of power.
His solar panels produce 50 watts if all are properly aligned to the sun on a perfectly clear day. However it's quite obvious that (if) you could properly align one panel, the others would be grossly out of alignment and therefore producing next to nothing.
But suppose by some magical spell or by using surgical mirrors you could get all aligned properly and producing the 50 watts. It would take almost 9 hours to recharge the batteries, not including his "Super capacitor".
50w / 12v = 4.2ah
35ah battery / 4.2ah panels = 8.3 hrs
There is only 3-6 hours useful, productive sunlight in a clear day depending on the location and time of year, so it would take at least a couple days to fully charge this scooter.
He rides the scooter in the video on a very cloudy day. His solar panels are producing about 0.0% of the energy needed to sustain his motion.
Because of this thread, I've briefly rsearched the useful range of a typical scooter. Most venders describe the typical range as "a good walk".
That means to me about a half mile. (Guessing)
The scooters I've seen for sale have batteries rated around 18ah which is less than this scooter- so this scooter might go 3/4 mile on a flat level and hard surface.
Yes it has a generator probably used for braking which probably contributes a bit but I don't believe it would be significant.
With practicallity in mind, +2 days of charging in optimal weather for 3/4 mile travel just doesn't cut it. The video claims 15-45 minute recharge. But recharge from what? Not from the sun, it is a mathematical impossibility. There's something they aren't telling you.
This is a photo of the solar panel in my yard:
Maybe I could bolt that onto my 2004 HCH and wire it onto my 12v battery and claim I have a solar car? That would be kinda the same thing.
Like the old pioneer pilots of the early 1900's- keep the goggles on, ideas flowing and the wrenches turning.
But this scooter is not ready for Kitty Hawk IMO.
This, to me seems to be a modern-day version.
I applaud the research and inventiveness of both peoples and hope their dream never ends. However this cycle just doesn't add up.
Combined battery capacity is 424watts and based on the generator specification in the video I'll assume he's using a 12v system so the batteries store about 35ah of power.
His solar panels produce 50 watts if all are properly aligned to the sun on a perfectly clear day. However it's quite obvious that (if) you could properly align one panel, the others would be grossly out of alignment and therefore producing next to nothing.
But suppose by some magical spell or by using surgical mirrors you could get all aligned properly and producing the 50 watts. It would take almost 9 hours to recharge the batteries, not including his "Super capacitor".
50w / 12v = 4.2ah
35ah battery / 4.2ah panels = 8.3 hrs
There is only 3-6 hours useful, productive sunlight in a clear day depending on the location and time of year, so it would take at least a couple days to fully charge this scooter.
He rides the scooter in the video on a very cloudy day. His solar panels are producing about 0.0% of the energy needed to sustain his motion.
Because of this thread, I've briefly rsearched the useful range of a typical scooter. Most venders describe the typical range as "a good walk".
That means to me about a half mile. (Guessing)
The scooters I've seen for sale have batteries rated around 18ah which is less than this scooter- so this scooter might go 3/4 mile on a flat level and hard surface.
Yes it has a generator probably used for braking which probably contributes a bit but I don't believe it would be significant.
With practicallity in mind, +2 days of charging in optimal weather for 3/4 mile travel just doesn't cut it. The video claims 15-45 minute recharge. But recharge from what? Not from the sun, it is a mathematical impossibility. There's something they aren't telling you.
This is a photo of the solar panel in my yard:
Maybe I could bolt that onto my 2004 HCH and wire it onto my 12v battery and claim I have a solar car? That would be kinda the same thing.
Like the old pioneer pilots of the early 1900's- keep the goggles on, ideas flowing and the wrenches turning.
But this scooter is not ready for Kitty Hawk IMO.
Last edited by Hot_Georgia_2004; 11-22-2010 at 07:06 PM.
#4
11-22-2010, 08:56 PM
Re: Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
Well I thankyou hot_georgia I understand your points 
Your attempt to understand my vehicle and your observations are close enough to be accurate, however your analysis of the implementation is going in the wrong direction.
My bike is not for every person... you have got to have a reason to have a vehicle of this technological marvel, and this version is probably not a good for fit for anyone other than myself at this date and time..
Oh and when you say
this is not correct, this should be noted in Wh (watt hours).
To say this scooter is not ready for what ever it is your saying.. IMO is rather DRY. It is a specialized vehicle if you want to understand where the scooter works, let me describe it like this...
Two electric scooters are traveling side-by-side down a straight two-laned road into a 25kph headwind in the early afternoon with the throttle stuck at drawing exactly 24 volts. The two riders are of equal weight. The two scooters have identical main batteries of voltage and capacity, and the same watt motors. The scooters are also approx. the same weight (if thats even possible). Except one scooter looks like an early 1900's Vespa scooter and the other my bike THEKPV, plus it has an additional 13.2V 2300mah battery (4s1p / 4 cells - 1 pack) that is 100% depleted (cells are 2.8 volts each).
Now which scooter do you think will be in the lead after 10 minutes have past ??
On a scooter/bike, the handle bars and the riders arms and torso effect wind resistance and drag in the conventional upright position. A protrusion into the air the size of a pencil can effect the aerodynamics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_fairing
THEKPV, with its solar panel design will be cutting through the headwind and drawing less amps compared to the vespa like scooter. Now after 10 minutes the solar output has been charging two groups of two cells for 5 minutes each. So the solar output has only been charging two cells at one-time.
The scooters arrive seperately at the 6 km mark and stop. The last 800' is a race and the track is a 6% uphill slope, and again with a headwind. THEKPV now has an additional couple hundred watts at the ready..
THEKPV may not run entirely on solar, but it can still utilize any amount the sun will provide. Driving this vehicle only requires efficient acceleration and obedience.
With thin film solar and lighter materials the efficiency and design will appeal to a larger number of people.
Your attempt to understand my vehicle and your observations are close enough to be accurate, however your analysis of the implementation is going in the wrong direction.
My bike is not for every person... you have got to have a reason to have a vehicle of this technological marvel, and this version is probably not a good for fit for anyone other than myself at this date and time..
Oh and when you say
Combined battery capacity is 424watts
To say this scooter is not ready for what ever it is your saying.. IMO is rather DRY. It is a specialized vehicle if you want to understand where the scooter works, let me describe it like this...
Two electric scooters are traveling side-by-side down a straight two-laned road into a 25kph headwind in the early afternoon with the throttle stuck at drawing exactly 24 volts. The two riders are of equal weight. The two scooters have identical main batteries of voltage and capacity, and the same watt motors. The scooters are also approx. the same weight (if thats even possible). Except one scooter looks like an early 1900's Vespa scooter and the other my bike THEKPV, plus it has an additional 13.2V 2300mah battery (4s1p / 4 cells - 1 pack) that is 100% depleted (cells are 2.8 volts each).
Now which scooter do you think will be in the lead after 10 minutes have past ??
On a scooter/bike, the handle bars and the riders arms and torso effect wind resistance and drag in the conventional upright position. A protrusion into the air the size of a pencil can effect the aerodynamics.
Empirical results indicate that a faired tailbox can increase speed on a low short wheelbase bike by around 5-10%
THEKPV, with its solar panel design will be cutting through the headwind and drawing less amps compared to the vespa like scooter. Now after 10 minutes the solar output has been charging two groups of two cells for 5 minutes each. So the solar output has only been charging two cells at one-time.
The scooters arrive seperately at the 6 km mark and stop. The last 800' is a race and the track is a 6% uphill slope, and again with a headwind. THEKPV now has an additional couple hundred watts at the ready..
THEKPV may not run entirely on solar, but it can still utilize any amount the sun will provide. Driving this vehicle only requires efficient acceleration and obedience.
With thin film solar and lighter materials the efficiency and design will appeal to a larger number of people.
#5
11-23-2010, 02:20 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1,797
Re: Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
Hi THEKPV.
I agree with some of your points presented, but vehemently disagree with others.
The main point I agree is aerodynamics, in which a simple fiberglass fairing would prove much better than your solar panels but cost drastically less, especially if you constructed one yourself.
The other point I agree with is a bigger power source will offer more speed/range.
However you say batteries are rated in watt-hours. That is incorrect. Batteries are labeled and tested in amp-hours.
For example here we have an electric scooter battery (Suzuki) rated 12v 10ah: http://www.batterymart.com/c-suzuki-...batteries.html and a car battery is rated by it's cold cranking amps (CCA not CCW) and deep cycle lead acid have RA (Reserve Amps). Rechargable toy batteries are rated in maH or ah. http://www.hobbypartz.com/?gclid=CN6...FZFl7AodWzcWXw
Watt-hours are the rate in which something consumes power. That's why light bulbs, electric motors etc are associated with watts.
If the draw is rated in watts, but the power source is rated in amps there must be a mathematical formula. There is. You take the consuming device's watts, divide it by votage to get amperage. Now you can determine how long a battery will perform under the given load.
In your case it's (your stated) combined 424 watt batteries, I'm assuming from your generator voltage that you are using 12v, so the formula is 424w / 12v = 35.3ah.
The formula is the same converting watts into amps, so a 50 watt panel @ 12v conversion looks like this:
50w / 12v = 4.2ah.
Now you take your battery with a 35.3ah capacity and connect it with your solar panels delivering 4.2ah to determine the charge time in hours. (We are using watt-hours as a measure)
35.3 / 4.2 = 8.4 hours of charging.
The claim on the video of 15-45 minute charging is not mathematically possible unless you are plugging your bike in. (Non-solar)
You mention in your last post that you get 5-10 minutes of additional charging to deliver hundreds of "watts" of additional power during your race.
Questions:
1) If it takes over 8 hours (~500 minutes) to fully charge your batteries in perfect conditions, how much benefit is 5-10 minutes during your race in a dramatically less favorable environment? That's what? 0.005% boost?
2) The video says the panels produce 50 watts in an hour's time. How can they deliver a couple hundred in 5-10 minutes as you said in your last post.... again in poor solar conditions during a race?
3) What is your formula to determine a couple hundred watts (Or signficant benefit) in 5-10 minutes?
More, alignment of panels to the sun is extremely important for proper power output. I can adjust my own back yard panel only a couple degrees either way and gain/loose almost an amp. A properly aligned panel will allow sunlight to pass with minimal interferance by the protective glass. One that is ... say 45 degrees off will have twice as much glass thickness to pass through.
It appears that none of the panels on the bike can possibly be even remotely aligned. It's also because of this that I believe no charging can be possibly accomplished while actually riding and very little while parked.
Note that in order for your panels to do anything at all, their voltage must exceed the supply. That is the threshold. The sun is highly directional which mean if you are:
1) Riding into the sun, 4 out of 5 panels won't likely reach the voltage threshold because of bad alignment. (Bottom 4 panels)
2) Riding with your back to the sun, None of your PV cells are are producing anything.
3) Riding with the sun to your side- 2 out of 5 panels on the opposite side won't reach the voltage threshold and won't contribute anything.
Based on that, a lot of your 50w panel array won't be producing anything at the same time.
However... in all honesty ....
I do applaud your inventiveness and willingness to try new things. I admire you and encourage you - and others to keep working out the details. Just be honest about it.
The biggest problem I have with inventers making false claims is the general public typically believe them. In your case, it creates a belief that cycle manufacturers could build a practical solar power scooter or bike if they wanted to ... which couldn't be further than the truth.
We are bombarded with so many un-truths about conserving energy these days that we don't know what is truth or lies. A prime example is the initial sales of hybrid cars back in the early 2000's.
People grew so skeptical because of various energy saving scams that many if not most believed hybrid efficiency was just another lie.
If you have modified a scooter to be recharged by plug-in with an additional battery reserve and attatched a couple PV panels to it, then that is what it is.
*It is NOT a solar-electric vehicle. At least not as people would perceive the claim to be which would be a vehicle powered by solar. Yes your panels do contribute but is only the tiniest miniscule percent.
*The biggest probem with any DIY solar panels are moisture. Yes anyone can build a panel but making it last more than a week/month can be an expensive challenge. Me? I spent over $200 on glass and hermetic sealing. They weigh around 60lb each for the glass. Maybe I'll get a couple years out of them.
How will your panels deal with rain?
*An on-board solar charging system for any vehicle is not practical. The loss is too high and gain is negligible with present PV. It makes more sense to increase battery capacity and charge with a fixed array which can be properly adjusted for maximum output.
*My advice is to remove the PV panels and all associated hardware and construct a sensible ferring. Increase your battery capacity- The money spent on PV could be applied to a more efficient/better constructed motor or harder tires.
Again I'm saying don't stop inventing. Don't stop coming up with new ideas. I just hope people keep their solar power claims within reality.
Me, for example could claim my solar power project saves money and reduces my electric bills and I could get tons of kudo-points on the net. But I would be lying.
My panels do produce more than yours, about 6.8ah on a good clear day. They charge a 240ah lead-acid battery bank.
It takes two days to recharge the power used by two 15 watt CFL bulbs burning for 9 hours through a 90% efficient inverter. If it's cloudy it takes more days.
My solar power project works very well for an emergency power backup system. But a very, very expensive one.
I agree with some of your points presented, but vehemently disagree with others.
The main point I agree is aerodynamics, in which a simple fiberglass fairing would prove much better than your solar panels but cost drastically less, especially if you constructed one yourself.
The other point I agree with is a bigger power source will offer more speed/range.
However you say batteries are rated in watt-hours. That is incorrect. Batteries are labeled and tested in amp-hours.
For example here we have an electric scooter battery (Suzuki) rated 12v 10ah: http://www.batterymart.com/c-suzuki-...batteries.html and a car battery is rated by it's cold cranking amps (CCA not CCW) and deep cycle lead acid have RA (Reserve Amps). Rechargable toy batteries are rated in maH or ah. http://www.hobbypartz.com/?gclid=CN6...FZFl7AodWzcWXw
Watt-hours are the rate in which something consumes power. That's why light bulbs, electric motors etc are associated with watts.
If the draw is rated in watts, but the power source is rated in amps there must be a mathematical formula. There is. You take the consuming device's watts, divide it by votage to get amperage. Now you can determine how long a battery will perform under the given load.
In your case it's (your stated) combined 424 watt batteries, I'm assuming from your generator voltage that you are using 12v, so the formula is 424w / 12v = 35.3ah.
The formula is the same converting watts into amps, so a 50 watt panel @ 12v conversion looks like this:
50w / 12v = 4.2ah.
Now you take your battery with a 35.3ah capacity and connect it with your solar panels delivering 4.2ah to determine the charge time in hours. (We are using watt-hours as a measure)
35.3 / 4.2 = 8.4 hours of charging.
The claim on the video of 15-45 minute charging is not mathematically possible unless you are plugging your bike in. (Non-solar)
You mention in your last post that you get 5-10 minutes of additional charging to deliver hundreds of "watts" of additional power during your race.
Questions:
1) If it takes over 8 hours (~500 minutes) to fully charge your batteries in perfect conditions, how much benefit is 5-10 minutes during your race in a dramatically less favorable environment? That's what? 0.005% boost?
2) The video says the panels produce 50 watts in an hour's time. How can they deliver a couple hundred in 5-10 minutes as you said in your last post.... again in poor solar conditions during a race?
3) What is your formula to determine a couple hundred watts (Or signficant benefit) in 5-10 minutes?
More, alignment of panels to the sun is extremely important for proper power output. I can adjust my own back yard panel only a couple degrees either way and gain/loose almost an amp. A properly aligned panel will allow sunlight to pass with minimal interferance by the protective glass. One that is ... say 45 degrees off will have twice as much glass thickness to pass through.
It appears that none of the panels on the bike can possibly be even remotely aligned. It's also because of this that I believe no charging can be possibly accomplished while actually riding and very little while parked.
Note that in order for your panels to do anything at all, their voltage must exceed the supply. That is the threshold. The sun is highly directional which mean if you are:
1) Riding into the sun, 4 out of 5 panels won't likely reach the voltage threshold because of bad alignment. (Bottom 4 panels)
2) Riding with your back to the sun, None of your PV cells are are producing anything.
3) Riding with the sun to your side- 2 out of 5 panels on the opposite side won't reach the voltage threshold and won't contribute anything.
Based on that, a lot of your 50w panel array won't be producing anything at the same time.
However... in all honesty ....
I do applaud your inventiveness and willingness to try new things. I admire you and encourage you - and others to keep working out the details. Just be honest about it.
The biggest problem I have with inventers making false claims is the general public typically believe them. In your case, it creates a belief that cycle manufacturers could build a practical solar power scooter or bike if they wanted to ... which couldn't be further than the truth.
We are bombarded with so many un-truths about conserving energy these days that we don't know what is truth or lies. A prime example is the initial sales of hybrid cars back in the early 2000's.
People grew so skeptical because of various energy saving scams that many if not most believed hybrid efficiency was just another lie.
If you have modified a scooter to be recharged by plug-in with an additional battery reserve and attatched a couple PV panels to it, then that is what it is.
*It is NOT a solar-electric vehicle. At least not as people would perceive the claim to be which would be a vehicle powered by solar. Yes your panels do contribute but is only the tiniest miniscule percent.
*The biggest probem with any DIY solar panels are moisture. Yes anyone can build a panel but making it last more than a week/month can be an expensive challenge. Me? I spent over $200 on glass and hermetic sealing. They weigh around 60lb each for the glass. Maybe I'll get a couple years out of them.
How will your panels deal with rain?
*An on-board solar charging system for any vehicle is not practical. The loss is too high and gain is negligible with present PV. It makes more sense to increase battery capacity and charge with a fixed array which can be properly adjusted for maximum output.
*My advice is to remove the PV panels and all associated hardware and construct a sensible ferring. Increase your battery capacity- The money spent on PV could be applied to a more efficient/better constructed motor or harder tires.
Again I'm saying don't stop inventing. Don't stop coming up with new ideas. I just hope people keep their solar power claims within reality.
Me, for example could claim my solar power project saves money and reduces my electric bills and I could get tons of kudo-points on the net. But I would be lying.
My panels do produce more than yours, about 6.8ah on a good clear day. They charge a 240ah lead-acid battery bank.
It takes two days to recharge the power used by two 15 watt CFL bulbs burning for 9 hours through a 90% efficient inverter. If it's cloudy it takes more days.
My solar power project works very well for an emergency power backup system. But a very, very expensive one.
Last edited by Hot_Georgia_2004; 11-23-2010 at 03:32 PM.
#6
11-23-2010, 02:52 PM
Re: Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
Okay, well Im glad to have this conversation.. I do not want to seem like a smart ***.. but solar is as good as you make it.. I did not spend a bundle, probably alot less than you (hot_georgia).. I paid $75.00 US for 30x 6"x6" monocrystalline solar cells rated at 4 watts each, and thats with a $30 express shipping charge from US to Canada. Mono cells are a better choice for low light conditions or indirect sun exposure.
I built my panels using aluminum angle (cheap) and polycarbonate (cheap), and aluminum rivets (cheap) to hold them together. To keep the weight down I drilled several thousand holes in the materials.... so I believe the panels are strong & good, and I can make some minor improvements for the next build... My sponsor supplied me with 92%+ light transparent polycarbonate sheets for the top cover.. these panels do not weight more than 6-8lbs..
The Ah of a battery can tell you how far of a distance you could achieve IF you maintain your watts output.. When I accelerate from a complete stop .. sure I can push 1100 watts through my 350 watt motor and its fun and exciting.. But that is not what an efficient smart driver of an electric transporter should do.. this to me is like driving a gas guzzler or something...
Im trying to keep the motor draw below 200 watts while in motion, which is easy for a slow stroll around the neighborhood .. however everything effects this from hills to wind.. especially when your speed goes over 15-20kph..
The solar output maybe very little.. but to a single 3.3v LiFePO4 cell, however my AC-DC charger outputs the same amount, and it is a 100 watt 3.3v @ 20A PS. I think it is good because as you probably already know an electric vehicle draws higher currents when accelerating.. So my vehicle stores solar energy for acceratings events and can generate energy in braking events..
I built my panels using aluminum angle (cheap) and polycarbonate (cheap), and aluminum rivets (cheap) to hold them together. To keep the weight down I drilled several thousand holes in the materials.... so I believe the panels are strong & good, and I can make some minor improvements for the next build... My sponsor supplied me with 92%+ light transparent polycarbonate sheets for the top cover.. these panels do not weight more than 6-8lbs..
The Ah of a battery can tell you how far of a distance you could achieve IF you maintain your watts output.. When I accelerate from a complete stop .. sure I can push 1100 watts through my 350 watt motor and its fun and exciting.. But that is not what an efficient smart driver of an electric transporter should do.. this to me is like driving a gas guzzler or something...
Im trying to keep the motor draw below 200 watts while in motion, which is easy for a slow stroll around the neighborhood .. however everything effects this from hills to wind.. especially when your speed goes over 15-20kph..
The solar output maybe very little.. but to a single 3.3v LiFePO4 cell, however my AC-DC charger outputs the same amount, and it is a 100 watt 3.3v @ 20A PS. I think it is good because as you probably already know an electric vehicle draws higher currents when accelerating.. So my vehicle stores solar energy for acceratings events and can generate energy in braking events..
#7
11-23-2010, 04:23 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1,797
Re: Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
Hi Terry.
Thanks for the conversation.
I just disagree that a plug-in vehicle with a some PV cells attatched constitutes a solar vehicle.
When it comes to charging batteries, it's the amperage which counts. Your plug in adapter provides about 20 amps, while your PV cells will produce about 4 amps- but only under perfect conditions which their mounting arrangements can't meet.
I would bet that 10-15 seconds using your kinetic braking motor generates more usable power than 3 hours of your PV cells in sunlight.
Advertising you have a solar bike and say it takes 15-45 minutes to recharge is simply misleading.
Picture riding your scooter with enough distance to deplete the battery (To the store etc) then leaving it parked outside in the sun for the 15-30 minutes it took you to finish shopping and expect it to be charged again.
That's what I think when I consider a Solar Vehicle and I suspect practically everyone else if you use that terminology. The video shows it zooming down sidewalks, doing circles and zooming some more. Once depleted, you just park it for 15-45 minutes in the sun and it's fully charged, right?
Wrong. That is mathematically impossible.
There isn't any real danger to making or inferring false claims about solar power inventions, except people become so used to them that when the real - deal comes along it can be as easily disregarded as a scam.
Thanks for the conversation.
I just disagree that a plug-in vehicle with a some PV cells attatched constitutes a solar vehicle.
When it comes to charging batteries, it's the amperage which counts. Your plug in adapter provides about 20 amps, while your PV cells will produce about 4 amps- but only under perfect conditions which their mounting arrangements can't meet.
I would bet that 10-15 seconds using your kinetic braking motor generates more usable power than 3 hours of your PV cells in sunlight.
Advertising you have a solar bike and say it takes 15-45 minutes to recharge is simply misleading.
Picture riding your scooter with enough distance to deplete the battery (To the store etc) then leaving it parked outside in the sun for the 15-30 minutes it took you to finish shopping and expect it to be charged again.
That's what I think when I consider a Solar Vehicle and I suspect practically everyone else if you use that terminology. The video shows it zooming down sidewalks, doing circles and zooming some more. Once depleted, you just park it for 15-45 minutes in the sun and it's fully charged, right?
Wrong. That is mathematically impossible.
There isn't any real danger to making or inferring false claims about solar power inventions, except people become so used to them that when the real - deal comes along it can be as easily disregarded as a scam.
#8
11-23-2010, 05:25 PM
Re: Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
Oh I see where your getting this info now.. I had originally not posted details about charging etc.. but I had some requests.. with several routes the solar output can be utilized and such.. I just couldn't properly communicate in the video in writing how the bike functions to everybody..
The website does have specs detailed better:
44 lbs without solar
396 Wh Battery (24v main battery)
13 km Range (minimum)
15-45 Min. recharge (AC-DC power supply)
28 Wh Battery (12v booster)
10,000 Charges (lifetime charges)
10.8V Capacitor (booster)
50 lbs w/Solar Array
50 Watts of solar power
12V Kinetic generator
(added annotations to the video now)
Yes the AC power supply does have the 20A rating, however a depleted cell of 2.8v very quickly rises to the 3.30v mark in under 2 minutes with anywhere from 4-7A and then the PS output goes south down to the 3-4A range. These cells are 10-15 minutes to 80% capacity type..
Again the solar cells Im using are 3 bus bar monocrystalline :
Cell Specifications: Rated power : ~4 Wp
Open circuit voltage: 0.610v -0.621v
Short circuit current: 8.18 amp - 8.78 amp
Operating voltage: 0.488 v - 0.50 v
Operating current: 7.51 amp - 8.14 amp
The reason I dont have good hard data is I only just finished the current bike 3-4 weeks ago, and where I live it is now winter.. The sun is low in the sky.. however my last test.. which was in the afternoon 2-3pm just last week..
The solar array output measured 6.9V @ 4A /open..
So even with the sun indirectly over head the output was able to charge the capacitor bank, and/or the spare battery.. as designed..
albeit not very quickly but I was truly relieved that it did indeed work.
So with an additional small array mounted over the rear wheel/motor area, fashioned similar to the front panels, except facing up/sideways .. Im going to est. that I can keep the output in the 7V @ upto 8A range from several angles..
While I do think that sometime in the future a solar bike will be made as to run off solar in some way similair to the way Ive got my bike setup, however for people to be happy it will require the battery charging operation to be automatic electronically controlled. My next version Iam planning will use high efficiency thin film solar cells.. and a brushless DC motor!!
Do you know about the GM Volt, and how much flack they have received since they revealed how the generator functions etc... I think it is a masterpiece of engineering.. That car has so much technology and yet the drivers not required to change their driving.. Can anyone just imagine if the driver was required to trip a few toggles or something to make the Volt operate..
GooD DAY!
The website does have specs detailed better:
44 lbs without solar
396 Wh Battery (24v main battery)
13 km Range (minimum)
15-45 Min. recharge (AC-DC power supply)
28 Wh Battery (12v booster)
10,000 Charges (lifetime charges)
10.8V Capacitor (booster)
50 lbs w/Solar Array
50 Watts of solar power
12V Kinetic generator
(added annotations to the video now)
Yes the AC power supply does have the 20A rating, however a depleted cell of 2.8v very quickly rises to the 3.30v mark in under 2 minutes with anywhere from 4-7A and then the PS output goes south down to the 3-4A range. These cells are 10-15 minutes to 80% capacity type..
Again the solar cells Im using are 3 bus bar monocrystalline :
Cell Specifications: Rated power : ~4 Wp
Open circuit voltage: 0.610v -0.621v
Short circuit current: 8.18 amp - 8.78 amp
Operating voltage: 0.488 v - 0.50 v
Operating current: 7.51 amp - 8.14 amp
The reason I dont have good hard data is I only just finished the current bike 3-4 weeks ago, and where I live it is now winter.. The sun is low in the sky.. however my last test.. which was in the afternoon 2-3pm just last week..
The solar array output measured 6.9V @ 4A /open..
So even with the sun indirectly over head the output was able to charge the capacitor bank, and/or the spare battery.. as designed..
albeit not very quickly but I was truly relieved that it did indeed work.
So with an additional small array mounted over the rear wheel/motor area, fashioned similar to the front panels, except facing up/sideways .. Im going to est. that I can keep the output in the 7V @ upto 8A range from several angles..
While I do think that sometime in the future a solar bike will be made as to run off solar in some way similair to the way Ive got my bike setup, however for people to be happy it will require the battery charging operation to be automatic electronically controlled. My next version Iam planning will use high efficiency thin film solar cells.. and a brushless DC motor!!
Do you know about the GM Volt, and how much flack they have received since they revealed how the generator functions etc... I think it is a masterpiece of engineering.. That car has so much technology and yet the drivers not required to change their driving.. Can anyone just imagine if the driver was required to trip a few toggles or something to make the Volt operate..
GooD DAY!
#9
11-24-2010, 12:44 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Posts: 1,797
Re: Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
Well I'm sorry but your numbers just don't add up.
Your main battery is 24v. You say your array produces 50W at over 8 amps.
50W / 24 = 2.0amps.
Where are you finding the additional 6 amps?
Again, if you were using 12V it would be
50W / 12 = 4.2a
Your 396wh battery @ 24v is 16.5ah.
396 / 24 = 16.5ah.
If your panels produce 2a @ 24v that would be:
16.5 / 2 = 7.75 hrs for charge.
However you said your panels produce 7v @ 4a.
Question: Is this measured while they are on your bike or laying flat on a table?
Traction batteries are usually wired in series, like this:
(+)-----F-------F--------F-------F-------(-)
F= Full cell
I'm sure you know the voltage of each cell is added evenly along the string. In this example, if "F" was a 2v cell, all together makes a 8v battery.
If you have this kind of situation:
(+)-----D-------F--------D-------F-------(-)
D= Discharged cell
If I understand correctly, you are trying to achive the above scenario by inserting your PV current to individual cells instead of the string as a whole. It doesn't work that way. -If- you were able to improve the SOC of one cell in the string, the additional current will be absorbed by the discharged cell next to it making the point moot.
The only way you can create more power to your drive is to apply enough current to the whole string, end to end as your 20a fast charger does.
This vehicle has enough amperage to do the job:
If you want to win the race I'd remove the 15lbs of solar stuff and make a sensible fairing. Instead of spending more money/time/energy on the PV I'd upgrade the motor and/or batteries.
Chevy Volt-
If it does what it's supposed to do I think it will really be something. I will seriously consider it, but only after it's been out for a few years to work the bugs out.
My 2004 HCH has almost 200,000 miles on it already.
Your main battery is 24v. You say your array produces 50W at over 8 amps.
50W / 24 = 2.0amps.
Where are you finding the additional 6 amps?
Again, if you were using 12V it would be
50W / 12 = 4.2a
Your 396wh battery @ 24v is 16.5ah.
396 / 24 = 16.5ah.
If your panels produce 2a @ 24v that would be:
16.5 / 2 = 7.75 hrs for charge.
However you said your panels produce 7v @ 4a.
Question: Is this measured while they are on your bike or laying flat on a table?
Traction batteries are usually wired in series, like this:
(+)-----F-------F--------F-------F-------(-)
F= Full cell
I'm sure you know the voltage of each cell is added evenly along the string. In this example, if "F" was a 2v cell, all together makes a 8v battery.
If you have this kind of situation:
(+)-----D-------F--------D-------F-------(-)
D= Discharged cell
If I understand correctly, you are trying to achive the above scenario by inserting your PV current to individual cells instead of the string as a whole. It doesn't work that way. -If- you were able to improve the SOC of one cell in the string, the additional current will be absorbed by the discharged cell next to it making the point moot.
The only way you can create more power to your drive is to apply enough current to the whole string, end to end as your 20a fast charger does.
This vehicle has enough amperage to do the job:
If you want to win the race I'd remove the 15lbs of solar stuff and make a sensible fairing. Instead of spending more money/time/energy on the PV I'd upgrade the motor and/or batteries.
Chevy Volt-
If it does what it's supposed to do I think it will really be something. I will seriously consider it, but only after it's been out for a few years to work the bugs out.
My 2004 HCH has almost 200,000 miles on it already.
Last edited by Hot_Georgia_2004; 11-24-2010 at 12:49 PM.
#10
11-24-2010, 02:25 PM
Re: Hybrid Electric Kinetic Photovoltaic Vehicle is One Green Machine
hot_georgia - I dont think you have the exact picture (more complex)..
My panels are not even half that weight! and besides Im not trying to win the race in the first place.. I built a solar vehicle that I can fit into a suitcase.
sorry I do not have an updated schematic to post
I can brake the wiring down into two parts to see how the solar/batteries/capacitor function.
BOOSTER PACKS
This is how I utilize booster packs. I can turn them on/off when I would need to charge them.
- they are basically wired in a straight connection to the motor.. bypassing the controller completely and this does make the solar option more of an efficient option. This is because most controllers.. well the ones I have at my disposal are only 95% efficient.
alright..
The positive and negative leads out from my controller :
- positive goes straight to the motor
- negative lead taps a group of 3 rocker switches, all SPDT (single pole - double throw) wired in a .... series??? (not sure the correct term/methodology).
see: http://www.thekpv.com/highres/photographs.php
1st switch (on) directs the negative from the controller (26.4V main pack) to the positive of my 12V (13.2V) booster pack
- negative from the booster pack then wires into the next rocker switch.
- off position bypasses the booster battery and continues to the next switch.
all switches can be in the off position and this would mean..
no booster packs are supplying any juice.
2nd switch (on) directs negative from the booster pack to the positive of capacitor bank
- IF the 1st switch booster is in the ON position, if it is OFF then just the cap. bank is utilized.
3rd switch etc . . etc . .
SOLAR CHARGING
So, the 12V booster (13.2V) has four cells wired in series, but when solar charging.. I split the 4 cells into 2 groups of 2 cells.
Using a DPDT (double pole - double throw) switch / ON 1 - OFF - ON 2 /
I can direct energy from the solar array into only the first two cells (ON 1)
or the remaining two cells (ON 2) of the booster pack.
All the packs are split up in this way using DPDT switches.
The 13.2V booster(4s1p) - 1 switch
10.8V capacitor bank(4s1p) - 1 switch
26.4V main battery (8s1p) - 2 switches
50 watts solar charging just 2 cells/two caps at any one time
This was measured with the panels mounted on the bike, facing a sun which is low in the sky at 3pm in November, in B.C. Canada.
There are technologies that will increase my panels efficiency.. nano prisms etc..
Oh, now the generator output functions similar to the solar in that I can split the output to charge ONLY 2 capacitors of the 4 cap series.
So, for example..
Im traveling and come across a couple hundred feet decent.. I would configure the switches to charge via both the solar and the generator. Judging the half way point of the decent toggling the switches to the second groups of both the battery and capacitors.
My booster pack which is ONLY 2300mah @ 13.2V has enough capacity to allow a trip to be a nice fast trip of approx. 10km ..(level surface)
compared to just using the 24 volt main pack, which is kinda slow with the gearing at 11T motor and 55T sprocket. The booster is not on 100% of the time ofcourse.. but at intervals.
If you want to win the race I'd remove the 15lbs of solar stuff and make a sensible fairing.
sorry I do not have an updated schematic to post
I can brake the wiring down into two parts to see how the solar/batteries/capacitor function.
BOOSTER PACKS
This is how I utilize booster packs. I can turn them on/off when I would need to charge them.
- they are basically wired in a straight connection to the motor.. bypassing the controller completely and this does make the solar option more of an efficient option. This is because most controllers.. well the ones I have at my disposal are only 95% efficient.
alright..
The positive and negative leads out from my controller :
- positive goes straight to the motor
- negative lead taps a group of 3 rocker switches, all SPDT (single pole - double throw) wired in a .... series??? (not sure the correct term/methodology).
see: http://www.thekpv.com/highres/photographs.php
1st switch (on) directs the negative from the controller (26.4V main pack) to the positive of my 12V (13.2V) booster pack
- negative from the booster pack then wires into the next rocker switch.
- off position bypasses the booster battery and continues to the next switch.
all switches can be in the off position and this would mean..
no booster packs are supplying any juice.
2nd switch (on) directs negative from the booster pack to the positive of capacitor bank
- IF the 1st switch booster is in the ON position, if it is OFF then just the cap. bank is utilized.
3rd switch etc . . etc . .
SOLAR CHARGING
So, the 12V booster (13.2V) has four cells wired in series, but when solar charging.. I split the 4 cells into 2 groups of 2 cells.
Using a DPDT (double pole - double throw) switch / ON 1 - OFF - ON 2 /
I can direct energy from the solar array into only the first two cells (ON 1)
or the remaining two cells (ON 2) of the booster pack.
All the packs are split up in this way using DPDT switches.
The 13.2V booster(4s1p) - 1 switch
10.8V capacitor bank(4s1p) - 1 switch
26.4V main battery (8s1p) - 2 switches
50 watts solar charging just 2 cells/two caps at any one time
However you said your panels produce 7v @ 4a.
Question: Is this measured while they are on your bike or laying flat on a table?
Question: Is this measured while they are on your bike or laying flat on a table?
There are technologies that will increase my panels efficiency.. nano prisms etc..
Oh, now the generator output functions similar to the solar in that I can split the output to charge ONLY 2 capacitors of the 4 cap series.
So, for example..
Im traveling and come across a couple hundred feet decent.. I would configure the switches to charge via both the solar and the generator. Judging the half way point of the decent toggling the switches to the second groups of both the battery and capacitors.
My booster pack which is ONLY 2300mah @ 13.2V has enough capacity to allow a trip to be a nice fast trip of approx. 10km ..(level surface)
compared to just using the 24 volt main pack, which is kinda slow with the gearing at 11T motor and 55T sprocket. The booster is not on 100% of the time ofcourse.. but at intervals.
