I've run into a problem in Virginia.
They are selling cheap gasoline.
But it's actually 10% ethanol with no signage.

I didn't notice until I saw my old 87 Plymouth's gas tank plummetted from 300 to only 250 miles. Grrr. A $2.90 E10 tank actually costs more than a $3.00 gasoline tank (9 versus 10 cents/mile). Is it legal for gas stations to sell E10 without telling customers? Looks like bait-n-switch to me; bait customers with cheap gasoline, but give them E10 instead.

I want to use real gasoline for maximum MPG.

 

Consider yourself lucky. E10 is now the only thing legal the most populous areas of Oregon and will be in the whole state by fall. However E10 can't explain your 16% drop in gas mileage. It shouldn't be more than 5%.

 

Looks like VA may be part of the govt reformulated fuel mandate, which bans MTBE and uses 10% ethanol instead. Here in MA gas stations have to display a yellow sticker that states fuel may contain up to 10% ethanol. MTBE has been banned in MA. I saw a drop in my mpg by about 5% since the change over. Check out the link on reformulated fuel.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/special/rfg2.html

hope this helps...

 

This may be a case where you need to write a letter to your state representatives and the Virginia agency that handles gasoline regulation enforcement. You might also consider reading how to test the ethanol level, a fairly simple process, and start doing your own testing. If you are unable to get a satisfactory answer from your local representatives, you may have a campaign slogan and could run for office. Absent a law, you don't have many options in court.

Bob Wilson

 

Much of the country has been buying E10 for the last 3 years. While it could be new to your area if you're outside a non-attainment area that didn't use RFG, I read your post and I'm thinking, where's this guy been for the last three years?

Just as there were no signs or other indicia when the oil industry started using MTBE to meet RFG requirements under the Oxyfuel requirements in 1993, and the Reformulated Gas program in 1995 -- there's been little to no signage or fanfare when the industry switched to ethanol from MTBE starting in 2003 when CA banned MTBE and 2004 when NY banned MTBE. The 2005 energy act eliminated the need for the use of an oxygenate in reformulated gasoline, but it also has a provision for renewable fuels, and so ethanol and biodiesel will be used in greater quantities going into the future.

On balance, while ethanol has gotten a lot of negative publicity recently, burning ethanol is overall better for our energy independence and our environment than burning gasoline. People often don't realize that ethanol has an octane rating of about 110 and never think about things like "alcohol burning funny cars" or other high-performance ethanol applications. In fact, for 50 years the oil industry has been using ethanol to boost octane, often in premium grades of gasoline.

And just to be clear: ethanol is alcohol. The same alcohol that you drink (think: Jack Daniels, Everclear, the 12% alcohol in your Merlot), except they mix it with gasoline so people won't drink it. That is what it means when they say its "denatured."

There is less energy content in ethanol, though, that is true, and so you can expect a slight drop in mileage. I would guess the huge decline you're seeing is more due to cold weather (which always drops mileage) than it is the ethanol.

While you might feel they're doing something devious to you, I hate to break this to you: there's 140 refineries in this country for all 300 million of us. The gas you get at two different branded stations in your area likely came from the same refinery, even if one's an ExxonMobil station and one's a ConcoPhillips station. Gasoline is pretty fungible. Except for the proprietary detergents and additives they put in premium gas, it's basically all the same in a given distribution area.

So what are your damages? It's not as if one company is selling you ethanol, and you're getting ripped off at one station but not others. How much money have you lost, because of it? I'll give you a clue: even accumulated over three years, it probably wouldn't pay for an hour's legal consultation about it.

 

In California, most gas is not E10. It is mostly 5.75% ethanol, the lowest allowed amount in the state. The rest is E10, but the E10 stations have stickers saying so. By 2009, only E10 will be sold.

 

Where I come from, E10 is signed as E10. It's required by law. No because when I go back home to Maryland, I refuel with real gasoline, and then I'm back to a 300-mile tank.

It was only the drop in the tank that made me say, "Hmmm. Virginia seems to be selling ethanol," and a talk with station owners confirmed it. Some do; some don't. Yes it is. The damage is an impact on my wallet of 9 cents instead of 10 cents per mile. The damage is I can no longer get home (on weekends) on a single tank, thus having to make an unplanned stop to refuel. The damage is that I would have bought from the station across the street which is using NO ethanol in its fuel. A customer can not make informed choices, if the stores are not providing the needed information[/b] (whether they are selling E10 or gasoline).

Misleading a customer, and pretending to be selling one product while actually providing a different one, is bait-n-switch (or plain dishonest). Corporations like Walmart, JCPenney, and Paypal have been sued & fined for such practices. It was not legal for them to do it, and it sure as hell ain't legal for gas stations to do it either.

BTW

I notice one of the stations just added a huge "10% ethanol" sticker.
They may have got caught by the Virginia inspectors, because
that sign wasn't there before (even though they were selling E10).

 

If it is something they "just" started doing in 2008, give'em a break and give'em time to catch up with labels. I'm sure it's lower on the priority list than selling chips and donuts in the attached quick-mart.

BTW read the "blending your own fuel" thread.
E10 is perhaps the WORST POSSIBIBLE blend.
Most cars do better with something more than 10%, but less than 45%.

On a cost per mile basis... I lose with E10, but save money in the 25-30% ethanol range... I need to add a couple gallons of E85 ( Usually $2.20 to $2.29 ) to make this blend.

https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...-should-16411/

-John

P.S. yes it is legal to sell any fuel that meets gov standards with or without labels!

 

As someone who used to work on a store, it doesn't take that long. It can be done in a single evening with maybe some overflow to the next morning. (Besides, not all cars can take E10, especially those made pre-1980. There should be a sign so these older vehicles can avoid using E10.)

For now, I'm only going to the Gasoline stations. They cost 10 cents more, but give me a full 300 mile tank, and that's important to me. I saw that. Don't understand why 10% would have lower MPG than 45% since 45% has less energy.

Also my 1987 car probably has rubber seals. The E45 would probably eat a hole through them.

 

While this is true, there are a few points you are over looking.

While gas may come from the same refinery, it is not always transported or shipped the same way. This is where it becomes one to many (one refinery to many truck lines or pipelines). And unless it's changed since I worked at refineries, the ethanol is not added in the refining process, it is added right before the shipping process, as a tank truck leaves the facility. This is where any variation likely occurs. And where for example different gas stations getting their fuels from the same refinery may have different amounts of ethanol in their fuel they sell at retail. Again, this might have changed since I was around refiniries, several years ago.