Civic GX... Have had it for 3 years, 95,000 miles.

When I realized that for every gallon of gasoline I was burning in my previous vehicle, a Ford F150, that I was releasing 28+ lbs of CO2 into the atmosphere, I went looking for a Hybrid, but bought the GX.

Advantages: 30-39 MPG (5.56 lbs of Methane = 1 Gal Gasoline)
Guaranteed Car Pool Lanes
AQMD Rebate on purchase ($4500)
Fed Tax Credit on purchase ($3K)
Availability of Home Compressor (with $1.5K from AQMD)

Let me make a comment on the compressor. When I purchased my car, I calculated the costs/benefits of a home compressor (cost $2500) and realized that if I drove an average of over 100 miles/day, it would be better to forgo the costs of installation (extension of gas lines, hookup), operation (maintenance/rebuild @ 2000-4000 hours), and slow fill (home gas lines get a low pressure gas line). I have been visiting CNG stations around the LA/SD/Las Vegas areas for the last 3 years, and have paid from a low of $.90 to a high of $2.60 for a "gallon" (at the $4.25 Peak for Gasoline in LA)

Currently Natural Gas sells for 80 Cents per Gallon
in Salt Lake City UT, and $1.80 in LA
I am driving the cleanest internal combustion vehicle
on the road, so clean that after 95K miles my exhaust
tailpipe looks like a new car's.

Disadvantages: Because of limited tank size (3600 PSI) I can only get
around 6.5 gallons of Methane in the tank, which limits
my range. Depending on my current driving habit,
I can get from 200 to 300 miles per tank.
If you have a straight, flat road, and drive 65,
you can easily improve mileage to 50 MPG and get
over 300 miles per tank.

When I bought this car, I used it for a weekly commute to Las Vegas. There are a limited amount of CNG stations in Victorville (2) and Barstow (1). None of the CNG stations are manned (anywhere), so if there are any fill or maintenance issues, it is quite easy to run into situations where you are low on gas, so, I make sure I always have enough gas to make it to the next station after the one I am headed to. From LA, I have driven to Vegas, San Diego, and San Francisco with absolutely no issues, there are plenty of stations in LA (80-90), Vegas (5+), and along the 101 to SF. I do plan my drive around where I will stop and get gas (full fill is a little faster time-wise than a full fill of a gasoline tank). I wish that the infrastructure of CNG stations were better, that I could just drive off the freeway and not have to drive another half mile to get to a station (there are a few stations that are very freeway accessible, but it is not the norm).

Would I buy another GX, Absolutely

Do I wish that everyone would have a Methane (Natural Gas) Vehicle? Absolutely.

Methane is a fossil fuel that we need to capture (like the methyl Hydrates that are melting under arctic permafrost - very high priority), sequester, and use.

And, the reason we don't hear about Natural Gas for Automobiles?

Gasoline refiners.

 

Great Post.

Would the same car be able to run on propane?

How about in a pinch situation?

 

The Honda GX is designed for a high pressure gaseous power source, not a liquid, and the LPG and CNG fuel systems are not compatible, even though Methane usually contains around 5% propane.

 

I would say the Honda GX is a great 2nd car. Unless you live in the city or have a great CNG infrastructure near by.

I thought the home compressor option had a subsidy in place so that you pay virtually nothing for it. Or was this offered to the limited few that got the original GX from Honda before it was released to the public?

 

There was a $1500 rebate from the LACA AQMD for the purchase ($3500) and installation of the home filler. For my installation it would be a simple 20' straight run from the gas meter to where I wanted the compressor/filler to be located. Initial estimates were $600 for installation, then increased to nearly $1500. I don't know if the Honda Dealers were giving the pumps away when the GX first came out ('98), but would be suprised if they did.

The compressor needs to be rebuilt after 2000 hours, and the gas flow is reduced significantly at that point, and continues to decrease flow with increased hours, to force you into the rebuild. So, it is a slow fill from home (I think it took around 8 hours to fill 1/2 a tank), and a fast fill from stations (it takes around 3 minutes for a Full fill). Because I drive over 100 miles per day in commuting, I chose to fill at stations rather than at home.

Regarding city driving, I would choose the GX.
I see that Minneapolis has 2 stations, the one near the airport is public use, the other is for trolleys (City run, no public access). I would bet that there are other CNG pumps that are privately run, and that with a request, would be open to individuals.

In Vegas, there are at least 5 stations that, with their credit card, will offer gas to individuals. I had to visit their office and put $100 down to get the card, and was paying around $1.10/gallon (this was when gasoline was over $4). There are pumps out there, cabs, delivery trucks, and gas companies, are typical users, it is just that you need to look for them.
In LA, I mainly use 4 different sources, Palmdale, near where I live, the Honda Dealer has one, Gas Companies have two, and the City School Bus Lot has one.

The only issue for Minneapolis is the 5 degree F limit on filling the tank. It does get cold there, I know, that is actually why I left Madison (winter of '83-'85) and moved to the LA area.

 

Yeah the killer of a cng vehicle will be the lack of infrastructure. This is why i really think a lot of the bio-diesel programs have a better chance of getting accepted by everybody. The infrastructure is already in place. Algae bio-diesel here we come.

Otherwise I would love to see for a push for hydrogen stations. If one were to opt for alternative infrastructure. I see that as a nice option. CNG has a better chance though, just because it is so widely used for everything but cars.

 

Agree absolutely,
There needs to be an infrastructure for delivery, be it Hydrogen or any other alternative fuel. However, there is a huge obstacle to overcome, our reliance on refined gasoline. With Methane, there is very little processing, as opposed to gasoline. So, the profit margin is not as great for Methane as Gasoline. Although, T. Boone Pickens is doing a great job jacking up the prices at his Clean Energy Stations, where they are around 50 cents higher than anywhere else. Even though the exclusivity of the car is nice, car pool lanes, I wish that everyone had cars that ran on Natural Gas instead of gasoline, we could make a HUGE difference in the amount of CO2 we release.
The only thing that will motivate everyone is when gasoline reaches $5/gallon, only when it hits the pocketbooks will people look for change.

 

i once heard that switching your car to natural gas can significantly lower its engine life because the engine isn't specifically created to run on natural gas, even though we can tweak it to that effect. now, even if you're getting all the benefits you just stated, how would you offset the loss of the shorter life?

 

The Honda GX is a gasoline powered Civic that has a factory modified gas delivery system (added cost for CNG conversion - $6500). The steps used to get gasoline to a gaseous state in the cylinder are not needed for Natural Gas. Due to the cleanliness of Methane (Natural Gas) when it burns, an internal combustion engine will last much longer running on Methane than Gasoline. There are also other reasons that a CNG powered engine will last longer, one is that because Methane is less explosive than gasoline, the engine is not exposed to stronger cylinder detonations (the Honda Civic GX has 10% less horsepower than the gasoline powered Civic). There are many cabs that burn CNG (Compressed Natural Gas), and have over 500K miles on the odometer. I have been told by someone who does vehicle maintenance for the LA county, that when they disassemble CNG engines, even after 500,000 miles, the engines look brand new. The GX is the first non-fleet car (sold to the public) that runs on Natural Gas, it has been available since 1998, over a million have been sold throughout the world, very few in the US because of our cheap gasoline.
Hydrogen will not be feasible in the near future as a power source for autos, it is a refined gas, just like gasoline, that needs energy use in its' refinement. We have enough Natural Gas to supply our energy needs for hundreds of years, it is cleaner than gasoline, requires little processing, and could become a fuel that is used to bridge our needs until we develop a truly clean energy source.
Just to rail on something that does not get enough attention. The warming of the Arctic, and what will happen when the permafrost in Canada and Siberia melts. Billions of tons of Methyl Hydrates that have been frozen under the permafrost will begin to melt, releasing huge quantities of Methane into our atmosphere. Methane is over 26x the greenhouse gas as CO2!
This would send our planet into a uncontrollable atmospheric catastrophe. This is VERY SERIOUS and there is little talk about it. Just wait, we will hear about it when it is too late.
We need the infrastructure for CNG vehicles now. We need to capture, sequester, and use the methane that is currently seeping from landfills and escaping from factory farms.
Delaying actions that need addressing now does nothing to improve our children's and the planet's future.

 

thanks for the detailed reply. we dont get cars here that are specifically made to run on CNG though so it was pretty informative. i dont agree that we should fully develop natural gas as a source of energy. it's a fossil fuel, the cleanest one around, but it still pollute the environment a lot. i read that here...http://www.ec.gc.ca/cleanair-airpur/...A9C18-1_En.htm

btw, the methane gas issue - that refers to the eocene max right?