GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars

GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars (/forums/)
-   Hydrogen (https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f80/)
-   -   Car Runs on Water (https://www.greenhybrid.com/forums/f80/car-runs-water-18605/)

slope 06-13-2008 11:14 AM

Car Runs on Water
 
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/g...-cell-vehicle/

We've seen plenty of promises about water-powered cars (among other things), but it looks like Japan's Genepax has now made some real progress on that front, with it recently taking the wraps off its Water Energy System fuel cell prototype. The key to that system, it seems, is its membrane electrode assembly (or MEA), which contains a material that's capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction. Not surprisingly, the company isn't getting much more specific than that, with it only saying that it's adopted a "well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA." Currently, that system costs on the order of 2,000,000 (or about $18,700 -- not including the car), but company says that if it can get it into mass production that could be cut to 500,000 or less (or just under $5,000). Head on past the break for a video of car in action courtesy of Reuters.

TeeSter 06-13-2008 12:55 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Doesn't this thing violate most of the rules of Thermodynamics.... Somehow we are cracking water without putting in energy. Burning the hydrogen produced in a fuel cell making energy and producing water again....

Where did the energy come from? Magic?

The only way I can see it working is if something in that MEA is used up in the reaction.... and THAT would actually the fuel for the vehicle... not the water. Because you'd have to replenish that.

bwilson4web 06-13-2008 01:22 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Well, yes. In fact, if it actually worked as claimed, it would have to 'extract' energy from the environment and actually cool the earth behind it. The faster it went, the more it would chill like the Delorian in "Back To The Future." <GRINS>

Of course it might be powered by a "cold fusion" power plant, the Pons solution!!

Bob Wilson

mof4000 06-13-2008 09:12 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.

MiaTurbo 06-16-2008 08:02 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
It's not running off of water. It's seperating the hydrogen from the oxygen and then runs off of the hydrogen.

KenG 06-16-2008 10:17 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 

Originally Posted by MiaTurbo (Post 176898)
It's not running off of water. It's seperating the hydrogen from the oxygen and then runs off of the hydrogen.

And the energy is derived from the hydrogen by combining it with oxygen. Basic chemistry and common sense tells you that the maximum energy available in this system is ZERO.

Aussie 06-17-2008 05:36 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
As the old saying goes..."if it seems to good to be true...it probably is"

You can only change energy from one type...to another. ie, kenetic energy to electrical, thermal to mechanical...and there are always losses in doing this. Substantial losses!

Energy cannot be created or destroyed...only changed. And...there will always been a price to pay.

This is sort like that other rubbish that someone is trying to flog off as science. Stick a couple of bottles of water under your hood with 12vdc running through it and...bingo H2O splits into oxygen and hydrogen - shove it into the air intake and .....walla instant power and increased fuel economy.

Well I'll be........

TeeSter 06-17-2008 06:47 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 

Originally Posted by mof4000 (Post 176669)
The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.

Yes but you aren't "extracting" energy from that water... you are using the water/hydrogen as a storage medium. You have to put slightly MORE energy into the electrolysis that ends up "stored" in the potential energy of the hydrogen that wants to BURN to release it. You will get slightly less back out when you "burn" it back into water... conservation of energy... you've formed a complete loop from water back to water, you can't "take" energy out of that, only loose it. Best you can do is break even.

So... essentially unless you have a huge source of hydrogen just lying around (wanna mine Jupiter anyone?)... your ultimate energy source is whatever you burned to make the hydrogen in the first place.

Fuel cells are a great idea in that they condense all the energy conversion somewhere, and that system can be made more efficient than an ICE (and possibly be wind, hydroelectric, hydrothermal...etc)... but when people say they are "emissions free" they are wrong.

Its only emissions free **IF** you had a ready source of natural hydrogen and can "dig" it up. Otherwise its just a way to store energy from the powerplant and it all depends on what the powerplant uses. If we converted every car in the world to run on fuel cells emissions from tailpipes (other than water vapor) would disappear....replaced by larger emissions from fossil fuel electrical plants (coal, oil, natrual gas) unless something is done there as well (nuclear, hydroelectric, solar, wind). The plants would produce less than all the cars because they are more efficient... but the improvement would be limited by the fact that the energy comes ULTIMATELY from fossil fuels for the most part using current technology.

In short the car doesn't "RUN" on water. Whatever is going on in that "MEA" requires energy input... either from a plug into a wall or a chemical reaction that will use up its reactants and require fuel.

Cparkinson 06-17-2008 09:34 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 

Originally Posted by mof4000 (Post 176669)
The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.

hello everyone,
This is really good information and thanks!! I found something about conversion that may interest you:
http://car-hydrogen.net/

enjoy and learning is good....

bwilson4web 06-17-2008 10:00 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
We aren't talking about:
  • driving on or off boats?
  • driving on the few remaining frozen lakes and ice roads?
Bob Wilson


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:44 PM.


© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands