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slope 06-13-2008 11:14 AM

Car Runs on Water
 
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/g...-cell-vehicle/

We've seen plenty of promises about water-powered cars (among other things), but it looks like Japan's Genepax has now made some real progress on that front, with it recently taking the wraps off its Water Energy System fuel cell prototype. The key to that system, it seems, is its membrane electrode assembly (or MEA), which contains a material that's capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction. Not surprisingly, the company isn't getting much more specific than that, with it only saying that it's adopted a "well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA." Currently, that system costs on the order of 2,000,000 (or about $18,700 -- not including the car), but company says that if it can get it into mass production that could be cut to 500,000 or less (or just under $5,000). Head on past the break for a video of car in action courtesy of Reuters.

TeeSter 06-13-2008 12:55 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Doesn't this thing violate most of the rules of Thermodynamics.... Somehow we are cracking water without putting in energy. Burning the hydrogen produced in a fuel cell making energy and producing water again....

Where did the energy come from? Magic?

The only way I can see it working is if something in that MEA is used up in the reaction.... and THAT would actually the fuel for the vehicle... not the water. Because you'd have to replenish that.

bwilson4web 06-13-2008 01:22 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Well, yes. In fact, if it actually worked as claimed, it would have to 'extract' energy from the environment and actually cool the earth behind it. The faster it went, the more it would chill like the Delorian in "Back To The Future." <GRINS>

Of course it might be powered by a "cold fusion" power plant, the Pons solution!!

Bob Wilson

mof4000 06-13-2008 09:12 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.

MiaTurbo 06-16-2008 08:02 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
It's not running off of water. It's seperating the hydrogen from the oxygen and then runs off of the hydrogen.

KenG 06-16-2008 10:17 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 

Originally Posted by MiaTurbo (Post 176898)
It's not running off of water. It's seperating the hydrogen from the oxygen and then runs off of the hydrogen.

And the energy is derived from the hydrogen by combining it with oxygen. Basic chemistry and common sense tells you that the maximum energy available in this system is ZERO.

Aussie 06-17-2008 05:36 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
As the old saying goes..."if it seems to good to be true...it probably is"

You can only change energy from one type...to another. ie, kenetic energy to electrical, thermal to mechanical...and there are always losses in doing this. Substantial losses!

Energy cannot be created or destroyed...only changed. And...there will always been a price to pay.

This is sort like that other rubbish that someone is trying to flog off as science. Stick a couple of bottles of water under your hood with 12vdc running through it and...bingo H2O splits into oxygen and hydrogen - shove it into the air intake and .....walla instant power and increased fuel economy.

Well I'll be........

TeeSter 06-17-2008 06:47 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 

Originally Posted by mof4000 (Post 176669)
The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.

Yes but you aren't "extracting" energy from that water... you are using the water/hydrogen as a storage medium. You have to put slightly MORE energy into the electrolysis that ends up "stored" in the potential energy of the hydrogen that wants to BURN to release it. You will get slightly less back out when you "burn" it back into water... conservation of energy... you've formed a complete loop from water back to water, you can't "take" energy out of that, only loose it. Best you can do is break even.

So... essentially unless you have a huge source of hydrogen just lying around (wanna mine Jupiter anyone?)... your ultimate energy source is whatever you burned to make the hydrogen in the first place.

Fuel cells are a great idea in that they condense all the energy conversion somewhere, and that system can be made more efficient than an ICE (and possibly be wind, hydroelectric, hydrothermal...etc)... but when people say they are "emissions free" they are wrong.

Its only emissions free **IF** you had a ready source of natural hydrogen and can "dig" it up. Otherwise its just a way to store energy from the powerplant and it all depends on what the powerplant uses. If we converted every car in the world to run on fuel cells emissions from tailpipes (other than water vapor) would disappear....replaced by larger emissions from fossil fuel electrical plants (coal, oil, natrual gas) unless something is done there as well (nuclear, hydroelectric, solar, wind). The plants would produce less than all the cars because they are more efficient... but the improvement would be limited by the fact that the energy comes ULTIMATELY from fossil fuels for the most part using current technology.

In short the car doesn't "RUN" on water. Whatever is going on in that "MEA" requires energy input... either from a plug into a wall or a chemical reaction that will use up its reactants and require fuel.

Cparkinson 06-17-2008 09:34 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 

Originally Posted by mof4000 (Post 176669)
The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.

hello everyone,
This is really good information and thanks!! I found something about conversion that may interest you:
http://car-hydrogen.net/

enjoy and learning is good....

bwilson4web 06-17-2008 10:00 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
We aren't talking about:
  • driving on or off boats?
  • driving on the few remaining frozen lakes and ice roads?
Bob Wilson

KenG 06-17-2008 10:06 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 

Originally Posted by Cparkinson (Post 177078)
hello everyone,
This is really good information and thanks!! I found something about conversion that may interest you:
http://car-hydrogen.net/

enjoy and learning is good....

These guys should be arrested for fraud.

akdano 11-05-2008 10:39 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Greetings! Just for fun, I built a hydrogen assist fuel cell from a kit I purchased for $40. I read about doing this at a website called water4gas.com Please take a look yourself. Anyway, I conducted a 130 mile test in my Hyundai Accent. Prior to installing the hydrogen assist fuel cell, I got 33 MPG highway. After installation and doing a highway only test I got 43 MPG.
As I understand the technology, the hydrogen and oxygen gained from electrolysis aid the combustion of your gasoline and result in burning more of it than thte standard 87% that our engines usually burn. So, as I see it, there was no magic. I did not create energy or break any thermodynamic laws. I just put more of the gas I bought into combustion and less got passed through to my catalytic converter to be burned there prior to exhaust. So, the gas pump and odometer seem to indicate that I used more of my gas for combustion, along with a little hydrogen and oxygen from the electrolysis and I got better gas mileage. Less waste = more available energy. Makes sense to me.

bwilson4web 11-06-2008 06:31 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Welcome first time poster. We are so pleased that you bring no hybrid content to GreenHybrid.com. Like eskimos, we look forward to reading about your refrigerator. You know that folks over in the Hyundai, GM, Ford and Chrysler forums are probably desperate for your wonderful story. Don't forget the folks over at "an authoritative source on fuel economy and hypermiling" who no doubt would love to hear from you.


Originally Posted by akdano (Post 190599)
. . . in my Hyundai Accent. . . .

  • What year?
  • How many miles before putting in the gas generator?
  • How many miles with the gas generator?
  • Are you recording all your miles in our database?
  • What happens when you turn it off for a tank?
  • Can someone who isn't you enable and disable it for a 'blind' study?
  • Have you sent Hyundai a letter about your success?
  • Do you think Hyundai is conspiring to keep it a secret?
  • Do you think the EPA is in on the conspiracy?
For me, $40, is one tank of $4/gallon gas. With gas closer to $2.50/gallon, it is now almost two tanks of gas. I personally have no interest in your gas generator at any price.

Bob Wilson

BigTuna 08-19-2009 06:00 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Several threads have spam as their last post. This causes the spam posts to show up on the main contents page even though the spammers have been banned. Copies of this post will serve as a place holders to remove the spammers from the contents page. If they bother anyone I'll delete them after the threads resume normal activity.

john smithson 02-11-2010 10:14 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Would governments then figure out a way to charge more for water?? They will get their money somehow. I hope this technology is true. It sure would eventually eliminate our reliance on the oil from the middle east a couple decades from now perhaps.

GreenBoy 06-23-2010 06:08 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
I've heard a lot of things about it, that car runs on water but there might be a lot of consideration pertaining to that. I don't know exactly how it works but the idea is great and can be off good benefit if this 1 would grow.

GeorgiaHybrid 06-23-2010 07:34 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Greenboy, you just can't help yourself can you???? Have you ever thought about visiting old folks homes to get your social interaction?

Micheal73 08-04-2010 02:43 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Concept of hydrogen cars is good. Using this concept we can save lot of fuel & pollution also.

futurecar101 10-13-2010 12:42 PM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Hydrogen cars are totally different than the theoretical unicorn called a water car that runs on 100-percent H2O. The story out of Japan broke a couple of years ago and so where is this water car now?

iboomalot 12-26-2010 06:46 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
Storage is the main problem with Hydrogen cars

1. compressed = thick , heavy walled tanks , and possible explosion
2. Water = Water is heavier than gas and how far can a H20 car run on 15 - 20 gallons ??

Weight and driving distance is a big problem.
---------------

If no one has noticed the driving range brainwashing has started.

My Diesel Jetta goes 500-600 miles between fillups but a VOLT only goes 300 or a LEAF 50 miles.

want a real solution to our problems,, look up the Peugot 3008Hyrbid4 and tun that type system on B-100 algea grown biomass.

Percymasson 10-05-2012 11:18 AM

Re: Car Runs on Water
 
It is great to drive car on water, there are lots of peoples who like to want see this sort of car who run on the water, with our any problems. If anyone has an information on it, then reply about it.


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