Car Runs on Water

  #1  
Old 06-13-2008, 11:14 AM
Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 5
Default Car Runs on Water

http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/g...-cell-vehicle/

We've seen plenty of promises about water-powered cars (among other things), but it looks like Japan's Genepax has now made some real progress on that front, with it recently taking the wraps off its Water Energy System fuel cell prototype. The key to that system, it seems, is its membrane electrode assembly (or MEA), which contains a material that's capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction. Not surprisingly, the company isn't getting much more specific than that, with it only saying that it's adopted a "well-known process to produce hydrogen from water to the MEA." Currently, that system costs on the order of 2,000,000 (or about $18,700 -- not including the car), but company says that if it can get it into mass production that could be cut to 500,000 or less (or just under $5,000). Head on past the break for a video of car in action courtesy of Reuters.
 
  #2  
Old 06-13-2008, 12:55 PM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,401
Default Re: Car Runs on Water

Doesn't this thing violate most of the rules of Thermodynamics.... Somehow we are cracking water without putting in energy. Burning the hydrogen produced in a fuel cell making energy and producing water again....

Where did the energy come from? Magic?

The only way I can see it working is if something in that MEA is used up in the reaction.... and THAT would actually the fuel for the vehicle... not the water. Because you'd have to replenish that.
 
  #3  
Old 06-13-2008, 01:22 PM
bwilson4web's Avatar
Engineering first
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Default Re: Car Runs on Water

Well, yes. In fact, if it actually worked as claimed, it would have to 'extract' energy from the environment and actually cool the earth behind it. The faster it went, the more it would chill like the Delorian in "Back To The Future." <GRINS>

Of course it might be powered by a "cold fusion" power plant, the Pons solution!!

Bob Wilson
 
  #4  
Old 06-13-2008, 09:12 PM
Enthusiast
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
Default Re: Car Runs on Water

The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.
 
  #5  
Old 06-16-2008, 08:02 AM
Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 95
Default Re: Car Runs on Water

It's not running off of water. It's seperating the hydrogen from the oxygen and then runs off of the hydrogen.
 
  #6  
Old 06-16-2008, 10:17 AM
Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 215
Default Re: Car Runs on Water

Originally Posted by MiaTurbo View Post
It's not running off of water. It's seperating the hydrogen from the oxygen and then runs off of the hydrogen.
And the energy is derived from the hydrogen by combining it with oxygen. Basic chemistry and common sense tells you that the maximum energy available in this system is ZERO.
 
  #7  
Old 06-17-2008, 05:36 AM
Aussie's Avatar
The Devil's in the detail
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 148
Default Re: Car Runs on Water

As the old saying goes..."if it seems to good to be true...it probably is"

You can only change energy from one type...to another. ie, kenetic energy to electrical, thermal to mechanical...and there are always losses in doing this. Substantial losses!

Energy cannot be created or destroyed...only changed. And...there will always been a price to pay.

This is sort like that other rubbish that someone is trying to flog off as science. Stick a couple of bottles of water under your hood with 12vdc running through it and...bingo H2O splits into oxygen and hydrogen - shove it into the air intake and .....walla instant power and increased fuel economy.

Well I'll be........
 
  #8  
Old 06-17-2008, 06:47 AM
Ridiculously Active Enthusiast
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,401
Default Re: Car Runs on Water

Originally Posted by mof4000 View Post
The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.
Yes but you aren't "extracting" energy from that water... you are using the water/hydrogen as a storage medium. You have to put slightly MORE energy into the electrolysis that ends up "stored" in the potential energy of the hydrogen that wants to BURN to release it. You will get slightly less back out when you "burn" it back into water... conservation of energy... you've formed a complete loop from water back to water, you can't "take" energy out of that, only loose it. Best you can do is break even.

So... essentially unless you have a huge source of hydrogen just lying around (wanna mine Jupiter anyone?)... your ultimate energy source is whatever you burned to make the hydrogen in the first place.

Fuel cells are a great idea in that they condense all the energy conversion somewhere, and that system can be made more efficient than an ICE (and possibly be wind, hydroelectric, hydrothermal...etc)... but when people say they are "emissions free" they are wrong.

Its only emissions free **IF** you had a ready source of natural hydrogen and can "dig" it up. Otherwise its just a way to store energy from the powerplant and it all depends on what the powerplant uses. If we converted every car in the world to run on fuel cells emissions from tailpipes (other than water vapor) would disappear....replaced by larger emissions from fossil fuel electrical plants (coal, oil, natrual gas) unless something is done there as well (nuclear, hydroelectric, solar, wind). The plants would produce less than all the cars because they are more efficient... but the improvement would be limited by the fact that the energy comes ULTIMATELY from fossil fuels for the most part using current technology.

In short the car doesn't "RUN" on water. Whatever is going on in that "MEA" requires energy input... either from a plug into a wall or a chemical reaction that will use up its reactants and require fuel.
 

Last edited by TeeSter; 06-17-2008 at 06:50 AM.
  #9  
Old 06-17-2008, 09:34 AM
Chris
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2
Default Re: Car Runs on Water

Originally Posted by mof4000 View Post
The way you extract energy from water has been around for about 100 years, it' called electrolysis. You put a current into water using a conductor (usually stainless steel to prevent rusting) and it separates the hydrogen from the oxygen in H20. The hydrogen is separated and used as fuel. Any waste converts back to H20. The hard part is making enough hydrogen to off set the cost of making it AND not having to use fossil fuels to make it which kind of defeats the purpose of making it.
hello everyone,
This is really good information and thanks!! I found something about conversion that may interest you:
http://car-hydrogen.net/

enjoy and learning is good....
 
  #10  
Old 06-17-2008, 10:00 AM
bwilson4web's Avatar
Engineering first
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 5,613
Talking Re: Car Runs on Water

We aren't talking about:
  • driving on or off boats?
  • driving on the few remaining frozen lakes and ice roads?
Bob Wilson
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Car Runs on Water


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.