I saw a full page ad in Popular Science last night for this "product" claiming to increase fuel economy 300%. My first thoughts, like every other magical car product, is SCAM. I was actually going to post it last night but went to bed instead. I'm no chemist, but my basic understanding of chemistry and the internal combustion engine makes me quite sure this doesn't make sense at all....

To summarize....it sounds like they are using electrolysis to separate hydrogen and oxygen and injecting it into the mix. From my recollection of HS chemistry, such a procedure would create quite small quantities of Hydrogen as to be negligible. Secondly, it actually TAKES energy to produce Hydrogen in quite an inefficient reaction. And since that energy comes from the battery...which is charged by the engine burning fuel....you are actually resulting in a net loss of energy. Thirdly, adding oxygen to the fuel doesn't increase Octane. Octane is a hydrocarbon....like butane, propane, hexane, etc. Furthermore, even if it did, Octane isn't BETTER for your car. Finally, magnets don't "ionize" gasoline. There have been magnets sold for fuel systems for years and every test has proven them to be snake oil. I won't even touch the "covalizer" but I can't wait for a chemical engineer to chime in....

I don't even think their explanation of the catalytic converter is correct. As I understand it, the CAT works by using engine exhaust to pre-heat a honeycomb of specific metals. These metals, once reaching a specific temperature will cause combustion of fuel upon coming in contact with it. There was actually an article about catalytic converters in the same issue of Popular Science as this ad! It certainly doesn't break down molecules into smaller particles to be burned in your tailpipe!

 

Tim,

You nailed it. However, in theory, if you had a vehicle with crappy spark plugs or ignition, hydrogen in large enough quantities might promote better ignition. But the milligrams these thieves are talking about, it would be insignificant.

So what this means is we need to visit the <name_of_guzzler_of_choice> forums and tell them about this great product. After all, a fool and their money should soon be parted.

Bob Wilson

 

Tim- after all that, and knowing all that, I'm confused why you still took the trouble to make such a post!

and -John

 

Only because it SHOCKS me that this sort of thing not only exists, but that this "company" has enough money/nerve to advertise FULL PAGE in things like Popular Science and Newsweek. I wouldn't have posted about the latest little gizmo I saw on ebay, but the scale of this is hard to believe.

Its one thing to hock 35 cent pieces of plastic that you stick in your air intake by placing tiny ads in obscure newspapers or selling online....but to make these claims in a full page ad, especially in a magazine targeting people (popsci) who probably know enough basic science to refute every claim made....that takes guts/*****/something.

 

Is that ad different than the cigarette ads in days of old that said:
"Ours are filtered for your better health."

Or "Buy our beer and get a blonde babe on each arm" ads?

If you're dumb enough to fall for one...
( you didn't buy one did you )

 

And i supose next you're going to tell me that using Axe body spray isn't going to result in a pile of beautiful scantaly clad women all over me.

 

I actually built one of those contraptions (and no I didnt give anyone money for the design) just to prove to myself that my thermodynamics, physics, chemistry and most other engineering class were correct ----------- there is no free lunch. It does look very impressive though when it is generating HHO. Mine consummed 8 amps of 12v current and did not affect the GPH fuel consumption at idle or raise the idle much at all. Now I'm mad at myself for spending 1 hr making the dang thing.

 

There will always be scam artists trying to sell things and make them sound like science. It's been going on since the days of the alchemists, with all the gizmos they came up with to 'turn lead into gold.' Maybe even longer. The explanations are just more complicated now, with bigger words. It never hurts to debunk this kind of thing (though sometimes you risk helping their advertising by giving them more name recognition or word-of-mouth) so posting a bit of explanation online where someone who takes the time to google it before responding to an ad might see it, isn't such a bad thing.

 

I'm sure glad I joined this forum. We drive an 06 Chrysler Pacifica and 08 Chevy Aveo. Curiosity got the best of us and we requested a quote. Phase I (not including the catalytic converter) is $1045 for each vehicle. We're retired and hope other seniors don't get suckered into this. Thanks to all for your expertise.

 

There is some merit to pre conditioning fuel in order to obtain more efficient fuel use and better gas mileage. I am willing to bet that this is not one of them.

Basically as I understand it, only about seventy percent of the air gas mixture introduced to the combustion chamber actually burns there. Gasoline only burns as a vapor and even the best fuel injection and induction systems cannot fully vaporize the fuel-gas mixture. The remaining unburned hydrocarbons are burned off after leaving the engine by the emission control systems.
Of the seventy percent of fuel actually burned in the power cycle, only about thirty percent of this is utilized for motion, the remaining being taken away in the form of heat.
This equates to the very poor efficiency of todays internal combustion engines and there is plenty of room for gains here.

The greatest potential of a pre combustion conditioner for gasoline would be to achieve a full hundred percent of combustable fuel charge, which in thoery could improve fuel mileage thirty percent. I doubt PICCTV achieves even this and making claims of such greater gains baised on pre conditioning is utter hog wash.

One of the old race pioneers, Smokey Yunick actually built an incredible hot vapor engine where he used part of the wasted combustion heat to pre vaporize the fuel mixture. this process not only put the fuel vapor in a fully vaporized and combustable state, it created a natural forced induction due to the thermal expansion of the gascious mixture.
The result which was well documented, was a substantial gain in both fuel mileage and horsepower.
If memory serves me well, there was an increase of fourty percent mileage, and a near doubling of horsepower due to the higher density and combustibility of the fuel mixture in the cylinders.

There will come a day where the auto engineers have devised a more efficient way of burning fuel which is practical for the mass market, and there have been great gains in this regard.
As for PICCTV,
Don't waste your money.

Bruce.