Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
#1
09-09-2005, 02:43 PM
Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005...l_japanese.php
Is it any surprise that Japanese carmakers are planning to bring some of their small cars – which are already best-sellers in most parts of the world – to North-America now that gasoline prices are rising and that SUVs are finally losing steam? Of couse, our European and Asian readers won't find these cars particularly small, but to most people in the US, they are.
#2
09-09-2005, 03:06 PM
Re: Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
The real shock will be when the Chinese start shipping small cars to the US. We'll probably see some real hostility, once again.
#3
09-09-2005, 05:06 PM
Re: Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
Hi Romir:
___I have been waiting to see the Honda Fit here for the longest time … The item I disapprove of in regards to its setup is that Honda is using the HCH’s 1.3 L iDSI ICE minus IMA but is gearing the poor thing down so it can tow something like 1,000 #’s in Europe! I believe the Aussies and Asians get the 1.5L. These are very small cars to begin with and to tow 1,000 #’s w/ a smallish 1.3L is ridiculous
The Fit/Jazz weighs ~ 600 #’s less then the HCH-I, has OK aerodynamics with a slightly larger frontal area, and do not come anywhere near the HCH’s FE in the city or highway tests with no aero effects screwing those tests up just like in the US. I am speaking of Urban/Extra Urban Euro fuel economy tests. I believe this car should be a solid EPA rated 40 city/50 highway but if Honda gears it 20% lower then the HCH just as they do with the EX/LX/DX, the results will be just plain wrong 
A 2,100 + # car with the exact same ICE as today’s 2,700 + # HCH does not need to be geared down do to lack of IMA, that is a guarantee!
___I would also like to see the Toyota Yaris/VITZ 5-door w/ Toyota’s AS feature here in the states. I bet that thing can do some damage to the EPA when pushed
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___I have been waiting to see the Honda Fit here for the longest time … The item I disapprove of in regards to its setup is that Honda is using the HCH’s 1.3 L iDSI ICE minus IMA but is gearing the poor thing down so it can tow something like 1,000 #’s in Europe! I believe the Aussies and Asians get the 1.5L. These are very small cars to begin with and to tow 1,000 #’s w/ a smallish 1.3L is ridiculous
The Fit/Jazz weighs ~ 600 #’s less then the HCH-I, has OK aerodynamics with a slightly larger frontal area, and do not come anywhere near the HCH’s FE in the city or highway tests with no aero effects screwing those tests up just like in the US. I am speaking of Urban/Extra Urban Euro fuel economy tests. I believe this car should be a solid EPA rated 40 city/50 highway but if Honda gears it 20% lower then the HCH just as they do with the EX/LX/DX, the results will be just plain wrong A 2,100 + # car with the exact same ICE as today’s 2,700 + # HCH does not need to be geared down do to lack of IMA, that is a guarantee! ___I would also like to see the Toyota Yaris/VITZ 5-door w/ Toyota’s AS feature here in the states. I bet that thing can do some damage to the EPA when pushed
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#4
09-09-2005, 05:33 PM
Re: Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
Originally Posted by Schwa
The real shock will be when the Chinese start shipping small cars to the US. We'll probably see some real hostility, once again.
Wayne,
Autoweek thinks the Fit will have a 1.5L engine standard. No matter whatengine, transmission, and gearing they settle on, they won't have it do worse than the 06 Civic's 30/40 epa. Right? Even if Honda gears it a bit too low, Toyota shouldn't do that to the Yaris. The xA already fills the pepier, lower geared MPV slot perfectly. One is a probable canidate to use an already developed idle-stop system for it, and the other is a probable hybrid. Both even have rudimentary fuel consumption displays. At least one of them will get it right, and hopefully both!
EDIT: Oh, the 2007 Yaris will be unveiled on Monday in Europe. "The vehicle featured at Frankfurt will have European specifications, but don't worry. If its modern lines and unbelievable value grab you, a U.S. specifications version will launch next spring for the 2007 model year as Toyota's most affordable passenger car." http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/yaris.html
Last edited by Romir; 09-09-2005 at 05:47 PM.
#5
09-09-2005, 07:47 PM
Re: Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
Hi Romir:
___Thanks for the info. Temple of VTEC has been saying the 1.5L for the US for over 6 months as well … If they gear that little beauty for towing a small boat or trailer, I am going to be … Well, never mind what I will be but it will still disappoint
___A lot of our Canadian friends are getting excited about the upcoming Yaris for late fall release up North. They love their 3 and 5-door Echo’s and given what those darn things can get in the FE department when equipped w/ a stick, I don’t blame them! Imagine that thing equipped w/ Toyota’s AS (Idle Stop) setup … I do not think that this is the redesign but simply the import of the JDM’s current Yaris? Either way, talk about a match made in heaven! If Toyota allows the end user to control the AS mechanism for FAS’ing and place the gauge cluster/package in front of the driver where it belongs … Hmmm
___Is the Nissan Mini supposed to be called the March or was that the Mini-hybrid?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___Thanks for the info. Temple of VTEC has been saying the 1.5L for the US for over 6 months as well … If they gear that little beauty for towing a small boat or trailer, I am going to be … Well, never mind what I will be but it will still disappoint
___A lot of our Canadian friends are getting excited about the upcoming Yaris for late fall release up North. They love their 3 and 5-door Echo’s and given what those darn things can get in the FE department when equipped w/ a stick, I don’t blame them! Imagine that thing equipped w/ Toyota’s AS (Idle Stop) setup … I do not think that this is the redesign but simply the import of the JDM’s current Yaris? Either way, talk about a match made in heaven! If Toyota allows the end user to control the AS mechanism for FAS’ing and place the gauge cluster/package in front of the driver where it belongs … Hmmm
___Is the Nissan Mini supposed to be called the March or was that the Mini-hybrid?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
#6
09-10-2005, 08:26 AM
Re: Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
A $10K, 40 - 45 MPG mini with great Toyota reliability would make a wonderful second car for urban families.
Apparently the mini-Honda has competed quite successfully in the international markets as well.
Apparently the mini-Honda has competed quite successfully in the international markets as well.
#7
09-12-2005, 09:53 AM
Re: Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
Here are some early details on the 2007 Yaris from the Frankfurt International Motor Show. More details will be unveiled tomorrow.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4105301&EDATE=
2007 TOYOTA YARIS PRELIMINARY SPECIFICATIONS
POWERTRAIN
1.5-liter, 4-cylinder, DOHC, 16-valve EFI with VVT-i
Horsepower: 106 hp @ 6,000 RPM
Torque: 103 lbs.-ft. @ 4,200 RPM
4-speed automatic
5-speed manual
SUSPENSION
FRONT: Independent MacPherson strutted-type with coil springs
REAR: Torsion Beam with coil springs
EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 96.9"
Overall Length: 150.6"
Overall Width: 66.7"
Overall Height: 60.0"
The hp & torque are very slightly down and highway mileage is down by 1 or 2 mpg to lower the emissions. Converting the Canadian and Japanese mileage ratings results in 34/42.7 for the MT, and 33.1/40.6 for the AT. Echos are pretty good at getting EPA mileage or better though.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4105301&EDATE=
Powering the U.S.-market Yaris liftback will be a 1.5-liter four-cylinder
engine with variable valve timing with intelligence (VVT-i) that will have
impressive fuel economy. Mated to either a five-speed manual or four-speed
automatic transmission, the engine will produce 106 horsepower and 103 ft.-lb.
of torque. Combined with the MacPherson strut front and rear torsion beam
suspension, the Yaris will offer fun-to-drive handling and excellent
maneuverability.
In addition to good overall handling, the U.S. Yaris also will offer
seat-mounted side and front and rear side curtain airbags, anti-lock brakes,
an audio system with MP3 capability and mini-jack port, power windows, mirrors
and door locks, and a 60/40 split rear seat with reclining, sliding and fold
flat features among its optional equipment.
The all-new Yaris three-door liftback will make its U.S. debut at a press
conference at the SEMA Show in Las Vegas on Wednesday, November 2.
engine with variable valve timing with intelligence (VVT-i) that will have
impressive fuel economy. Mated to either a five-speed manual or four-speed
automatic transmission, the engine will produce 106 horsepower and 103 ft.-lb.
of torque. Combined with the MacPherson strut front and rear torsion beam
suspension, the Yaris will offer fun-to-drive handling and excellent
maneuverability.
In addition to good overall handling, the U.S. Yaris also will offer
seat-mounted side and front and rear side curtain airbags, anti-lock brakes,
an audio system with MP3 capability and mini-jack port, power windows, mirrors
and door locks, and a 60/40 split rear seat with reclining, sliding and fold
flat features among its optional equipment.
The all-new Yaris three-door liftback will make its U.S. debut at a press
conference at the SEMA Show in Las Vegas on Wednesday, November 2.
POWERTRAIN
1.5-liter, 4-cylinder, DOHC, 16-valve EFI with VVT-i
Horsepower: 106 hp @ 6,000 RPM
Torque: 103 lbs.-ft. @ 4,200 RPM
4-speed automatic
5-speed manual
SUSPENSION
FRONT: Independent MacPherson strutted-type with coil springs
REAR: Torsion Beam with coil springs
EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 96.9"
Overall Length: 150.6"
Overall Width: 66.7"
Overall Height: 60.0"
The hp & torque are very slightly down and highway mileage is down by 1 or 2 mpg to lower the emissions. Converting the Canadian and Japanese mileage ratings results in 34/42.7 for the MT, and 33.1/40.6 for the AT. Echos are pretty good at getting EPA mileage or better though.
#8
09-12-2005, 10:32 AM
Re: Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
It really sounds like a good car, and depending on price, may be an excellent buy.
... But I do not know if I can live with MPG in the 40's, let alone 30's.
Call me spoiled.
... But I do not know if I can live with MPG in the 40's, let alone 30's.
Call me spoiled.
#9
09-12-2005, 11:03 AM
Re: Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
Hi Romir:
___I do not see much difference between the Yaris and what Toyota offered in their previous Echo?
2006 Yaris 3-Dr. HB // 2005 Echo 2-Dr. Coupe
POWERTRAIN
1.5-liter, 4-cylinder, DOHC, 16-valve EFI with VVT-I // 1.5-liter, 4-cylinder, DOHC, 16-valve EFI with VVT
Horsepower: 106 hp @ 6,000 RPM // Horsepower: 108 hp @ 6,000 RPM
Torque: 103 lbs.-ft. @ 4,200 RPM // Torque: 105 hp @ 4,200 RPM
4-speed automatic // 4-speed automatic
5-speed manual // 5-speed manual
SUSPENSION
FRONT: Independent MacPherson strutted-type with coil springs // FRONT: Independent MacPherson strutted-type with coil springs
REAR: Torsion Beam with coil springs // REAR: Torsion Beam with coil springs
EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 96.9" // 93.3 in.
Overall Length: 150.6" // 164.8 in.
Overall Width: 66.7" // 65.4 in.
Overall Height: 60.0" // 59.4 in.
EPA: Unknown // 35/42 mpg w/ a stick
___Toyota apparently changed the body style and left most of the underpinnings about the same apparently? The Front MS independent and Rear non-independent suspension does not help much if any in the handling department unfortunately Cheap - Cheap - Cheap. If Honda does actually release the Jazz/Fit in its JDM form, it will eat this thing alive but at the usual Honda premium at first 
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
___I do not see much difference between the Yaris and what Toyota offered in their previous Echo?
2006 Yaris 3-Dr. HB // 2005 Echo 2-Dr. Coupe
POWERTRAIN
1.5-liter, 4-cylinder, DOHC, 16-valve EFI with VVT-I // 1.5-liter, 4-cylinder, DOHC, 16-valve EFI with VVT
Horsepower: 106 hp @ 6,000 RPM // Horsepower: 108 hp @ 6,000 RPM
Torque: 103 lbs.-ft. @ 4,200 RPM // Torque: 105 hp @ 4,200 RPM
4-speed automatic // 4-speed automatic
5-speed manual // 5-speed manual
SUSPENSION
FRONT: Independent MacPherson strutted-type with coil springs // FRONT: Independent MacPherson strutted-type with coil springs
REAR: Torsion Beam with coil springs // REAR: Torsion Beam with coil springs
EXTERIOR DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 96.9" // 93.3 in.
Overall Length: 150.6" // 164.8 in.
Overall Width: 66.7" // 65.4 in.
Overall Height: 60.0" // 59.4 in.
EPA: Unknown // 35/42 mpg w/ a stick
___Toyota apparently changed the body style and left most of the underpinnings about the same apparently? The Front MS independent and Rear non-independent suspension does not help much if any in the handling department unfortunately
Cheap - Cheap - Cheap. If Honda does actually release the Jazz/Fit in its JDM form, it will eat this thing alive but at the usual Honda premium at first ___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
Last edited by xcel; 09-12-2005 at 12:56 PM.
#10
09-12-2005, 11:51 AM
Re: Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again
Yep, the engine is the same, just tuned for better emissions. I'm not sure about the rest of the changes. Perhaps they've made some more interior room. The final specs (Canadian) haven't been revealed to the public yet.
There's nothing wrong with inexpensive and reliable transportation. Toyota will have the overall best $10k car on the market, and perhaps the lowest TCO. The current Echo driver fatality rates are below industry averages, and hatchbacks with folding rear seats now offer a surprising amount of space. These small cars are way ahead of the econoboxes of the past.
The Fit does have some superb engineering, but like you pointed out, will likely be more expensive than Toyota's offering. It'll have to compete with the Yaris, xA, and xB single handily! Do you happen to know when the newer design will be unveiled? It'll be interesting to see what they've improved on, especially mechanically.
Honda seems to be expecting the small car market to shrink over the next 5 years by up to 11%. Hmm...
There's nothing wrong with inexpensive and reliable transportation. Toyota will have the overall best $10k car on the market, and perhaps the lowest TCO. The current Echo driver fatality rates are below industry averages, and hatchbacks with folding rear seats now offer a surprising amount of space. These small cars are way ahead of the econoboxes of the past.
The Fit does have some superb engineering, but like you pointed out, will likely be more expensive than Toyota's offering. It'll have to compete with the Yaris, xA, and xB single handily! Do you happen to know when the newer design will be unveiled? It'll be interesting to see what they've improved on, especially mechanically.
Honda seems to be expecting the small car market to shrink over the next 5 years by up to 11%. Hmm...
Against that competitive backdrop (to the Civic) is the fact that the small-car segment in the U.S. is expected to shrink. Relatively cheap gas and hefty consumer incentives have allowed consumers to buy larger cars. Consumer preferences have also shifted from traditional cars to sport-utilities and crossovers. Honda predicts the small-car decline could be as much as 11 percent over the next five years. "We intend to get a bigger piece of the shrinking pie," says Honda's Mendel.
