'08 Firmware updates?
#11
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
MrT (Ted) has a '08 FEH and has driven the '10 FEH and should know your statement is false. The '09 and '10 FEH has a better EPA Hwy rating and overall EPA combination rating than the '08 FEH. It is true that the '09 and '10 is heavier than older FEH's and may not handle a lead foot better but it does if your burning E10. In the history of the '08 FEH, no one has ever came close to a complete 57mpg tank on straight gas, much less using E10. I just completed 5 full tanks with an 57.7mpg average and with one of those tanks at 48.123mpg going 790 miles. These tanks were all using E10 and represent first place over all hybrids and gas version vehicles driven by the top hypermilers at Cleanmpg.com in the 8th 3 month FE Challenge. This is a World EPA record for any year non plug-in FEH.
GaryG
GaryG
GaryG
GaryG
Anyone with any year FEH can figure out that you must be a considerable traffic impediment even IF your impractical claims were to be true.
You HAVE NOT owned both a 2008 and a 2009. Nor has anyone else on this site claimed to have owned both on here yet other than I. I am not comparing the 08 to a 10 as you are trying to relate to. The actual, REALISTIC comparison I am making from a REAL LIFE experience is between a 2008 FEH loaded and a 2009 FEHL.
I have owned both. My wife knows almost nothing of hypermiling. I can't think of a more practical, real world comparison than a soccer mom running my kid all over the city and our making several in state highway trips. 37000 miles worth of testing Gary.
The 09 I own does not, and never will get better gas mileage than the 08 I owned.
The 09 I own does not, and never will get better gas mileage than the 08 I owned.
The 09 I own does not, and never will get better gas mileage than the 08 I owned.
Buy a 08 and test them for yourself, until then compare what you can with the vehicles you ACTUALLY have experience with.
#12
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
Gary,
The statement is false FOR YOU. For some people who drive "normally" rather than hypermiling, the statement may be true. Just because the newer FEH is capable of being driven for better MPG than the 1st Gen, does not mean that everyone will have the same experience.
Not to mention his particular unit may have some issues - which is possible.
The statement is false FOR YOU. For some people who drive "normally" rather than hypermiling, the statement may be true. Just because the newer FEH is capable of being driven for better MPG than the 1st Gen, does not mean that everyone will have the same experience.
Not to mention his particular unit may have some issues - which is possible.
The EPA figures are what I was referring to mainly and stated so in my response. Tell me you didn't know the '08 FWD FEH is rated 30/34mpg and the '09 FWD FEH is rated 31/34. Sean's statement should be false to you also. The EPA says the '09 FEH gets better mileage than the '08, not the same or worst like Sean was stating.
GaryG
#13
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
Gary,
The statement is false FOR YOU. For some people who drive "normally" rather than hypermiling, the statement may be true. Just because the newer FEH is capable of being driven for better MPG than the 1st Gen, does not mean that everyone will have the same experience.
Not to mention his particular unit may have some issues - which is possible.
The statement is false FOR YOU. For some people who drive "normally" rather than hypermiling, the statement may be true. Just because the newer FEH is capable of being driven for better MPG than the 1st Gen, does not mean that everyone will have the same experience.
Not to mention his particular unit may have some issues - which is possible.
Just to pick ONE 2009 fuel sucking software "revision" between the two model years would be the 2500 MINIMUM rpm in the 2009 at over 89 degrees. Yep, this is NOT a malfunction. This is a PROGRAMMED change.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive any speed over 40mph at less than 2500 rpm with the a/c on when the outside temp goes over 89 degrees. Let off the gas and the rpms drop, but just TOUCH the pedal with even the lightest pressure and the engine will immediately jump to 2500 rpm. 41mph to 65 mph, 2500 rpm.... This is NOT as fuel efficient as the 2008 was period, especially around town where you are only averaging 45mph or so..
I hate to be repetitive but with both vehicles we drive/drove the SAME streets, in the SAME city, in the SAME state, the SAME times during the day. My wife has the SAME job, at the SAME location, the SAME hours. My kid goes to the SAME school and the SAME after school activities.
I really can't say much more, but it sucks to be challenged everytime I try to help clarify information from experience.
There are TONS of differences between the two trucks, some better on the 09, most WORSE. I will admit that I expected MUCH more out of the 09 from the reviews I read before deciding to make the switch.
If I could do it over again, I would KEEP my 2008. We loved it to death and miss it sorely. With the incentives at the time and the tax incentive, it was possibly the best new vehicle purchase I have ever made.
#14
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
Steve, Sean stated false information no matter about hypermiling - This statement "The 2009 does not have improved mpg over the 2008, nor do the epa figures reflect improved mpg. If it did, Ford would have been marketing the crap out of the mpg improvement."
The EPA figures are what I was referring to mainly and stated so in my response. Tell me you didn't know the '08 FWD FEH is rated 30/34mpg and the '09 FWD FEH is rated 31/34. Sean's statement should be false to you also. The EPA says the '09 FEH gets better mileage than the '08, not the same or worst like Sean was stating.
GaryG
The EPA figures are what I was referring to mainly and stated so in my response. Tell me you didn't know the '08 FWD FEH is rated 30/34mpg and the '09 FWD FEH is rated 31/34. Sean's statement should be false to you also. The EPA says the '09 FEH gets better mileage than the '08, not the same or worst like Sean was stating.
GaryG
Have you ever compared the 2008 to the 2009 other than the window sticker Gary?
#15
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
FWIW, since I'm still a newbie by anyone's standards in this forum, I can also confirm that Ford will not/cannot update the firmware/software on the FEH. Mine is an 06 and I was also hoping to get some of the bennies of the new design. I wen to the dealer and spoke at length with their Hybrid guru and it is all as Steve says. Bummer!
That said, I still love this thing! With my local area commute, I'm averaging 35-39 MPG. On the highway, that drops to about 31. Must be something to do with my right foot. Nonetheless, I am more than pleased with the Ford Hybrids and will look at getting a Fusion Hybrid (used, of course) when the time comes to replace our family car.
That said, I still love this thing! With my local area commute, I'm averaging 35-39 MPG. On the highway, that drops to about 31. Must be something to do with my right foot. Nonetheless, I am more than pleased with the Ford Hybrids and will look at getting a Fusion Hybrid (used, of course) when the time comes to replace our family car.
#16
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
Considering you are the ONLY person on this entire site that I have seen making these ridiculous mileage claims Gary (for ANY year feh), I am thinking something else here is false.
Anyone with any year FEH can figure out that you must be a considerable traffic impediment even IF your impractical claims were to be true.
Anyone with any year FEH can figure out that you must be a considerable traffic impediment even IF your impractical claims were to be true.
In addition, my mileage during the '07 Hybridfest MPG Challenge has been documented and can be viewed by a simple google anytime just like those false statements you made about the '09 FEH EPA rating not being improved over the '08 model.
Now your assuming I'm a "considerabe traffic impediment" when you've NEVER seen me drive. You sure know more about the FEH EPA rating than what's on my window sticker and how I drive my FEH more than anyone here. I seen your anger before at Ford and again when you stated "Ford would have been marketing the crap out of the mpg improvement." Now that's the real problem and you don't want people here buying new Ford Hybrids.
The only thing I'm demonstrating with my mileage log is that Ford is making a better product and Hybrid than the competition. I also did the same by purchasing an improved '09 FEH and can backed it up with my mileage log and lack of repairs needed. I've posted the bad with the good and try to help everyone I can with my experience. As you have seen, I will also call people on giving false information.
GaryG
#17
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
Your real smart Sean, you've owned an '08 FEH and now are bashing the '09 FEH which may prove to be the best non plug-in hybrid in history. The '08 FEH history has a much worst EPA rating than the '05 FEH. LOL now!
The good news for Ford is I'm proving the '09 FEH is not only more efficient than the '08 FEH, but it has the highest EPA percentage above all Hybrid EPA ratings sold in America.
GaryG
#18
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
I agree that it's possible Steve, but we ARE getting the epa claims with the 09 but anything better takes alot of effort. We were getting MUCH better than EPA claims with our 08 and it was completely by accident and without effort.
Just to pick ONE 2009 fuel sucking software "revision" between the two model years would be the 2500 MINIMUM rpm in the 2009 at over 89 degrees. Yep, this is NOT a malfunction. This is a PROGRAMMED change.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive any speed over 40mph at less than 2500 rpm with the a/c on when the outside temp goes over 89 degrees. Let off the gas and the rpms drop, but just TOUCH the pedal with even the lightest pressure and the engine will immediately jump to 2500 rpm. 41mph to 65 mph, 2500 rpm.... This is NOT as fuel efficient as the 2008 was period, especially around town where you are only averaging 45mph or so..
I hate to be repetitive but with both vehicles we drive/drove the SAME streets, in the SAME city, in the SAME state, the SAME times during the day. My wife has the SAME job, at the SAME location, the SAME hours. My kid goes to the SAME school and the SAME after school activities.
Just to pick ONE 2009 fuel sucking software "revision" between the two model years would be the 2500 MINIMUM rpm in the 2009 at over 89 degrees. Yep, this is NOT a malfunction. This is a PROGRAMMED change.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to drive any speed over 40mph at less than 2500 rpm with the a/c on when the outside temp goes over 89 degrees. Let off the gas and the rpms drop, but just TOUCH the pedal with even the lightest pressure and the engine will immediately jump to 2500 rpm. 41mph to 65 mph, 2500 rpm.... This is NOT as fuel efficient as the 2008 was period, especially around town where you are only averaging 45mph or so..
I hate to be repetitive but with both vehicles we drive/drove the SAME streets, in the SAME city, in the SAME state, the SAME times during the day. My wife has the SAME job, at the SAME location, the SAME hours. My kid goes to the SAME school and the SAME after school activities.
FWIW, I believe GaryG's MPG numbers. He has achieved them at hybrid gatherings that are judged by impartial observers. But I'm not interested in hypermiling.
My 2008 AWD is standing just above 30 MPG lifetime. But my normal commute is only 10 miles
Last edited by stevedebi; 05-18-2010 at 11:04 PM.
#19
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
You are right that I am not as happy with my 09 as I was with my 08, great observation skills on that one.
That's exactly what I have been saying all along. I'm glad you finally get it.
In my opinion, the 2009 does not get better gas mileage than the 2008.
It's ok for you to disagree with that, really.
You can continue to mislead people with your outrageous mileage claims that can't possibly be achieved with normal everyday driving.
Please share with us any information regarding you actually driving a 2008 in the same manner as you drive your 2009.
Steve,
I don't argue that Gary has achieved these numbers at hybrid gatherings either, but what part of a hypermiling session at a hybrid gathering is similar to real world, every day vehicle use?
carry on!
That's exactly what I have been saying all along. I'm glad you finally get it.
In my opinion, the 2009 does not get better gas mileage than the 2008.
It's ok for you to disagree with that, really.
You can continue to mislead people with your outrageous mileage claims that can't possibly be achieved with normal everyday driving.
Please share with us any information regarding you actually driving a 2008 in the same manner as you drive your 2009.
Steve,
I don't argue that Gary has achieved these numbers at hybrid gatherings either, but what part of a hypermiling session at a hybrid gathering is similar to real world, every day vehicle use?
carry on!
#20
Re: '08 Firmware updates?
You are right that I am not as happy with my 09 as I was with my 08, great observation skills on that one.
That's exactly what I have been saying all along. I'm glad you finally get it.
In my opinion, the 2009 does not get better gas mileage than the 2008.
It's ok for you to disagree with that, really.
You can continue to mislead people with your outrageous mileage claims that can't possibly be achieved with normal everyday driving.
Please share with us any information regarding you actually driving a 2008 in the same manner as you drive your 2009.
Steve,
I don't argue that Gary has achieved these numbers at hybrid gatherings either, but what part of a hypermiling session at a hybrid gathering is similar to real world, every day vehicle use?
carry on!
That's exactly what I have been saying all along. I'm glad you finally get it.
In my opinion, the 2009 does not get better gas mileage than the 2008.
It's ok for you to disagree with that, really.
You can continue to mislead people with your outrageous mileage claims that can't possibly be achieved with normal everyday driving.
Please share with us any information regarding you actually driving a 2008 in the same manner as you drive your 2009.
Steve,
I don't argue that Gary has achieved these numbers at hybrid gatherings either, but what part of a hypermiling session at a hybrid gathering is similar to real world, every day vehicle use?
carry on!
If you drive your '09 on E10 like you did your '08 on straight gas, your going to see a drop in mileage from the '08 most likely. If you still had your '08 and compared it with the mileage you get in the '09 with both using E10, the '09 would get better mileage IMO. My '09 FEH does not jump to 2,500rpm's in 90 degree weather with the A/C ON like yours so you may have a problem. If anyone has this same issue with a '09 FEH, please post about it so we can get to the bottom of what's causing it.
If I drove like I did in the '07 Hybridfest MPG Challenge all the time here in Florida, my LMPG average would be a little better. The fact is, I drove like you most likely by not planning or concentrating on getting good gas mileage. That's all over for me now and I plan every trip and concentrate my skills on driving into what you see in my mileage log. I've never got a ticket for driving to slow but I have been pulled over for driving to fast in my '09 FEH. I'm constantly complaining about people driving to slow and not knowing how to drive by not paying attention to driving or the people behind them. I don't get on I-95 and hold traffic back like some hypermilers I know because I know skills in driving fast with traffic also. The big problem with my '05 FEH is E10. It won't get out of its on way getting up to speed on an ON-Ramp. The '09 FEH has no problems like my '05 on E10. The fact is, I start the engine in my '09 from EV every time I need to accelerate with or without traffic behind me. On the other hand, my '05 will accelerate faster in EV from a stop than accelerating with the engine on E10. After 15mph I do start the '05 because it does alright to about 38mph with the engine on E10. After 38mph I constantly have to fight to lower runaway RPM's in the '05 but not the '09. I truly love my '09 because it's more efficient on E10 than my '05 on straight gas for me. The Sync, Nav system and other electronics on the '09 make a world of difference also.
GaryG