2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

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  #81  
Old 02-21-2011, 05:59 PM
Bill Winney's Avatar
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

With regard to disposing of the engine without tear down... no sweat, I got the concept. Just my old Navy engineering sense talking.

About that overheating of the bearing: this can happen quite fast if all oil was cutoff which can happen with dirt in the oil flow path. You wouldn't see the overheat in the water temps, its a very local thing right at the bearing & the cooling water jacket is distant from the crankshaft bearings. They're cooled by the oil (which apparently was cutoff).

But it would be worth taking apart the oil filter, just to have a look see. In my opinion the cause was jiffy lube. Engine design & technology has been hammered out for over a century. These engines just don't fail like that. There was a cause and its very, very likely related to the most recent change in something: e.g. the jiffy lube experience.

I do my own oil for a reason. Its not that the average jiffy lube guy isn't trying to do a god job. Its that I don't want to be the guy that has your experience for the one in a thousand bad jiffy lube guys. Oh yeah, their oil meets minimum specs... but I want better oil than that.
 
  #82  
Old 02-28-2011, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

Originally Posted by Bill Winney
With regard to disposing of the engine without tear down... no sweat, I got the concept. Just my old Navy engineering sense talking.

About that overheating of the bearing: this can happen quite fast if all oil was cutoff which can happen with dirt in the oil flow path. You wouldn't see the overheat in the water temps, its a very local thing right at the bearing & the cooling water jacket is distant from the crankshaft bearings. They're cooled by the oil (which apparently was cutoff).

But it would be worth taking apart the oil filter, just to have a look see. In my opinion the cause was jiffy lube. Engine design & technology has been hammered out for over a century. These engines just don't fail like that. There was a cause and its very, very likely related to the most recent change in something: e.g. the jiffy lube experience.

I do my own oil for a reason. Its not that the average jiffy lube guy isn't trying to do a god job. Its that I don't want to be the guy that has your experience for the one in a thousand bad jiffy lube guys. Oh yeah, their oil meets minimum specs... but I want better oil than that.
Of course, the FEH does not have a water temperature gauge/sensor anyway...
 
  #83  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

Further news on our 2006 FEH. We have it back from the dealer now, re-engined, and running fine. The only thing is, our mileage seems to have dropped from about 30-32 in the city, to around 20-22MPG. I'm wondering if we got an Atkinson cycle engine or an Otto for our replacement. Is there any way to tell from an external inspection?
 
  #84  
Old 03-01-2011, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

Originally Posted by William Maness
Further news on our 2006 FEH. We have it back from the dealer now, re-engined, and running fine. The only thing is, our mileage seems to have dropped from about 30-32 in the city, to around 20-22MPG. I'm wondering if we got an Atkinson cycle engine or an Otto for our replacement. Is there any way to tell from an external inspection?
IMO I would be extremely surprised if
they put an Atkinson engine in there.
That'd be a real kick in the behind if
you proved to them that they put the
wrong engine in there.
 
  #85  
Old 03-01-2011, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

It's supposed to be the Atkinson engine isn't it?
 
  #86  
Old 03-01-2011, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

Originally Posted by William Maness
It's supposed to be the Atkinson engine isn't it?
Yes, but it would be such an easy mistake to make
in the dealers parts department. Also an interesting
exercise in how much MPG savings you get using
the Atkinson engine. This is gonna be

REAL PAINFUL

for the dealer. They gotta make it right. Swapping
out that Otto for an Atkinson is gonna be

REALLY EXPENSIVE

the cost of the Atkinson has gotta be 3x what the
Otto is and he's gonna get it free. Almost easier
to just give'em the swap to Otto for free.
 
  #87  
Old 03-01-2011, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

Originally Posted by William Maness
Further news on our 2006 FEH. We have it back from the dealer now, re-engined, and running fine. The only thing is, our mileage seems to have dropped from about 30-32 in the city, to around 20-22MPG. I'm wondering if we got an Atkinson cycle engine or an Otto for our replacement. Is there any way to tell from an external inspection?
You could try discharging the battery down to the point where battery boost is impossible and see how it accelerates on ICE alone. I tried that with info from a thread here, and the lack of ICE performance without the EV boost was amazing poor. I would think an Otto cycle engine would perform pretty much like a I4 non-hybrid in that condition, with decent acceleration.

Best bet though is to make the dealer confirm by part number what engine went in.
 
  #88  
Old 03-02-2011, 02:51 AM
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

Ford Motor Company has a policy of "only certified Hybrid techs" can work on the hybrid vehicles. If one is going the route of "the parts department" made a serious error, then you need to add the "person(s)" in the service department to this theory. It doesn't make any sense unless you want to go the route of "corrupt dealership".

Can we ask the owner to go thru a month or two of driving (break in?) and reporting back on fuel economy?
 
  #89  
Old 03-02-2011, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

Stevedebie:
"@Bill Winney, I had no warning or indicator lights of any sort. If it had gotten hot, wouldn't I have had something light up?"

Of course it has a sensing mechanism for water temps. It just doesn't have the traditional gauge.

Wmmaness: the only difference between the Otto & Atkinson cycle engines is the intake camshaft. I wouldn't expect that dramatic a drop in mileage just from the different cam. There is a learning curve for the software in the engine. Track it for awhile and see if it rises.
 
  #90  
Old 03-02-2011, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: 2006 Escape Hybrid: Catastrophic Engine failure @ 65,000 miles

Originally Posted by Bill Winney
Stevedebie:
"@Bill Winney, I had no warning or indicator lights of any sort. If it had gotten hot, wouldn't I have had something light up?"

Of course it has a sensing mechanism for water temps. It just doesn't have the traditional gauge.

Wmmaness: the only difference between the Otto & Atkinson cycle engines is the intake camshaft. I wouldn't expect that dramatic a drop in mileage just from the different cam. There is a learning curve for the software in the engine. Track it for awhile and see if it rises.
This whole thing about getting the Atkinson changed to an Otto in an FEH is silly. The Otto can't bolt to the One-Way Clutch and the eCVT. There is a lot more than just a camshaft that is different about the Atkinson, what about the compression ratio? What about the programming in the PCM? It would be easier making a cow into a bull then expecting the other cows to get pregnant by that bull.

GaryG
 


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