2013 Escape
 

"The new Ford Escape will be shorter in height but otherwise larger than the outgoing version. The wheelbase will be stretched by almost 7 inches, while overall length will increase by about 4 inches and width will increase by about 3 inches, so expect a far more spacious environment for second-row passengers.
Although the Kuga offers a turbodiesel engine as an option, we imagine it won't make it to the States. And unlike the current Escape, there will be no optional V6. Instead we expect a choice of four-cylinder engines that will include turbocharged ("EcoBoost" in Ford parlance), direct-injected, 1.6- and 2.0-liter units to provide respectable performance along with high fuel efficiency. There might also be a normally aspirated 2.5-liter inline-4 on the powertrain roster as well. We expect that an automatic engine start/stop feature (such as what's seen in various mild hybrid vehicles) will be featured as well. Ford claims this feature can increase fuel efficiency by up to 5 percent in normal driving and by even more in heavy stop-and-go traffic.
The 2013 Ford Escape is set to go on sale in the summer of 2012."
http://www.edmunds.com/ford/escape/2013/

No Hybrid? Big Change! Wrong Move?

GaryG

Re: 2013 Escape
 

The Ford C-Max (the Escape Hybrid dies) receives the hybrid equipment and treatment in 2012/13. It will be similiar in size to the current Mazda 5
http://images.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/m...012/mz5/01.jpg

Ford has stated it will be more cost efficient to move to a dedicate platform for the hybrid vehicle.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

If it looks like that, all Ecape's die. If one compares specs, there isn't anything to compare. The Escape isn't being replaced, it's being dropped.

The Ford CSUV is dead.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I see that Ford officially announced the power-train line-up for the new 2013 Escape.

Absent from the line-up is any kind of hybrid. :(

The line-up that will be offered is:

•2.5-liter four
•2.0-liter EcoBoost four
•1.6-liter EcoBoost four

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I got an email from The Ford Story, Ford's blog which confirm this but it's been known for months. The eco-boost 1.6L gets 31mpg.

The C-Max which will be released next year will have a hybrid.

http://www.thefordstory.com/our-arti...-c-max-hybrid/

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I see no mention of AWD for either of the C-Max hybrids. Does this mean there will be no hybrid Fords with AWD?

Re: 2013 Escape
 

31mpg CITY, like the hybrid ???

I'll need to see that with my own eyes before I would believe that. ;)

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I think that the Ford Escape Hybrid was Ford's "learning platform." They put together the transaxle, it tested well on their proving ground, so they picked a platform to get it on the road and see just what real world warranty experience they would have.

Note that this engine & transaxle setup is now going into their Lincoln platform, their MKZ. So Ford must like the warranty claims experience they've had and are moving into other platforms.

I'd like to think they're looking at putting it into a small pickup with a V-6 powerplant.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I'm suspicious that none of the manufacturers really wanted to build hybrids in the first place. Toyota pushed the envelope by producing the prius and so the others followed up not wanting to be left out of the market. If you look at the market place for used hybrids it suggests that the general public is unimpressed.

Ford's move toward the ecoboost solution seems to also suggest that the auto makers are more inclined to push the more conventional ICE style of powertrain. The conspiracy theorist in me tends to think that the auto makers would kill the electric (and maybe hybrid too) car again if they could get away with it. Hopefully Tesla and a host of others will see to it that the concept of an all electric car for the masses will advance as it should.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I agree with ya on the "didn't really want to build hybrids." They're always driven to the "least expensive to build" cars. That's why direct injection for gasoline engines took so long to come around (eg Ecoboost's central feature is direct injection). In reality direct injection is a marginal improvement in fuel economy but given the MPG games driven by both federal law & ever climbing prices for fuel, it makes sense.

Still I really like the FEH! Ford did good! Like I said they're moving this powerplant into cars like the Lincoln MKZ, so they're not dumping this powertrain.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

No, I'm sure they are talking highway.

I'm thinking that the FEH are going to have high resale values after 2012.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I have been reading and looking at the press release of the 2013 "Escape". It is an Escape in name only as the Escape we know is dead. The hybrid we know is dead. The new "Escape" is just another cross-over vehicle like so many others on the market today. It seems Ford has ditched the Escape which was the second most popular model they sold this past year. Of course they kept the name, but that is all as they didn't even bother to keep the Hybrid version. The excuse is eco-tech engines will replace the hybrids. I doubt if the city mileage in an eco-tech is any where near as good as a hybrid. Advertising on TV seems to just focus on highway MPG. Not everyone stays on a highway all day. I wish they had to always tell what the average MPG is in the advertising when they talk MPG.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

But DFI is a much more substandial improvement in FE if the engine isn't also derated/detuned to accommdate BOOST.

EcoBoost was originally concieved as "TwinForce", a method to attract "boy racers" and those of that mentality to the new pony car...Mustang.

But then gas prices went into orbit.

So Ford proved once again that while you can try, you can NEVER make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Oh, with the MKZ they is likely just enough more profit margin to afford the Toyota licensing cost.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I thought I read somewhere that Mazda was bringing a small diesel to US market, forgot what os where I read it, anyone else confirm?

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I'm interested in the licensing cost you mentioned. Can you provide any printed information about this? All I can find is mention of a cross-licensing agreement between Ford and Toyota where they shared technology in return for agreeing not to sue each other over similar technology that was created in separate development initiatives. No money appears to be involved.

(ref:http://www.green.autoblog.com/2009/0...a-hybrid-syst/)

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I think that this is a tale perpetuated by people that are ashamed of being an American.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

No, PROUD to be an American.

Just facts.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

Which you are unable or unwilling to document.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

I understood it as Ford traded some diesel technology in exchange for some hybrid technology. But also remember reading that Ford still registered over 125 unique patents in the process.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

Yes, Ford had its share of patents arising from the overall application of the hybrid synergy drive technique, not the least of which was the lowering of regen capability with OAT as a safety measure.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

As usual, Mr. West is unable to document the OAT-outside air temperature- sensor. Yet he continues to post his theory every winter that has been documented to be untrue by several members of this forum.

This is from someone who claims "Lexus wanted to hire him to teach their ...." :(

Re: 2013 Escape
 

My 2005 FEH does not have this so called "measure".
So this is obviously not an implemented patent.
I'm sure you know over 99% of all patents never come to market.

It was -2°F this morning.
My intake air temperature after moving through the snorkel under the hood was reading +4°F and this is what the FEH uses as an outside air temperature reference.

I had used my plug-in 120v AC battery heater for the previous 8 hours.
My battery Tave reading was 64°F.
As soon as my water temp was above 154°F I had normal EV mode with Full Regen brake, and Full battery assist.

It is absolutly, 100% proven that regen amperage is only relative to battery temperature, not outside air temperature.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

Are you trying to say that the PCM calculates OAT using intake temperature? You started a whole thread about that before which sure didn't prove that point. Intake temperature varies so much between at standing idle to moving that it would be impossible.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

"...regen AMPERAGE..."

Without questioning your analysis, no dispute there. But at what point during braking does the system switch from regen braking, FRONT wheel braking ONLY, to combined regen/frictional braking at freezing or sub-freezing temperatures vs not.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

All I can read is pretty much the hybrid Escape is dead. My 2008 FEH AWD shows no signs of wearing out and I don't put that much mileage on it.

I had thought that I would buy the next-gen FEH, but it looks like that isn't going to happen.

As for FEH resale market, it has always been the case here that they were nearly impossible to get at any price. The dealer here tells me "owners of these just don't trade them in." If you want to buy a new one there is a waiting list.

The specs on the new "Escape" don't do much for me. There are some styling points I like but not much more. I use my car off-road to carry hang gliders so I can't use a under-built crossover. Perhaps in 4 years or so something from some manufacturer will make something that seems like a trade up from the FEH, but I don't see it yet.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

How about a used Prius for your daily driver, and a used Toyota Tacoma (or other small PU) for the hang gliders?

Re: 2013 Escape
 

Well I have got to the age where it is no longer a matter of what I can AFFORD, but what I like to drive.

I drive a FEH not because I couldn't afford a Lexus or MB, or BMW or whatever (and the gas for it) but as an engineer I feel like the FEH represents a step up in evolution over a conventional car. I am reminded of that every time I am in stopped traffic surrounded by idling engines, where the FEH is just sitting quietly. I also like the incredibly solid feeling of the car -- nothing rattling loose or clanking or doing anything but working perfectly.

I read somewhere that used taxicabs from Manhattan with 300,000 miles on them are selling for $17K+. How many other cars can command a resale price like that?

So whenever I trade in the FEH (not for several years from what I can see) I'll pick the best small SUV I can get. I thought that would be another Escape but it looks like Ford isn't going that way.

Also, the Prius might be a fine car and all. Certainly popular. But fugly. If I get two cars after all the 2nd one is going to be a Tesla.

Re: 2013 Escape
 

There were many improvements in the '09 FEH over the older models, but I don't drive it much since I got my wife the '11 Explorer. I don't know if it was the 20" rims and R50 Hankook tires, but it handles and drives much better than the '09 FEH. In fact, I've never own a vehicle that I love driving this much. Here in Florida, I run the A/C all the time and my wife and I have a combined LMPG of 23.8mpg. With the '09 FEH with no A/C use, I have a combined LMPG of 53.8mpg.

Ford is working on the engine Start/Stop system which will make there vehicles shutdown coming to a stop and restart when you give it gas pedal. Most Fords sold today now have aggressive Fuel-Cut (DFSO), so when you are slowing down, no fuel is burning above ~20mph. This maybe why Ford is going to stop making the FEH. Better things are coming soon!

GaryG

Re: 2013 Escape
 

Well Said Alan!! Exactly my reasons for Loving the FEH!!!

Re: 2013 Escape
 

Maybe not quite that high: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1-OWN...#ht_747wt_1167