You need to reread the thread...you simply don't understand the issue (or what can be used in court to prove a particular matter).

 

Lets discuss the history of the FEH High Voltage Traction Battery (HVTB). According to the Helms FEH Workshop Manuals (‘05 - ‘09 volumes), the HVTB pack is a sealed unit. The only thing repairable according to the manuals, is reprogramming the Traction Battery Control Module (TBCM) within the battery pack. This can be done externally without breaking the pack seal.

In 2006, Ford found that a wiring harness within the sealed packs was corroding and Ford was facing a choice of replacing the $7,000 pack or breaking the seal on the pack and replacing the harness. This repair was not in accordance with any of the Helms FEH WM. I received a letter from Ford telling me to bring my ‘05 FEH to an authorized Ford Dealer to have the harness within the battery pack replaced. Knowing what the manual stated, Ford had no choice but to develop a procedure and train the techs to replace the bad harnesses. My harness was replaced and the TBCM was reprogrammed at no cost.

The 2 internal fans in the pack that started going bad called for the HVTB to be replaced according to the Helms WM. Clearly, the internal fans are within the HVTB packs and part of the battery assembly. Ford was again faced with a choice to replace the HVTB, or develop a new procedure and make the fans available to the Dealers.

FEH owners here at greenhybrid.com were being told by the dealers and Ford that replacing the fans was not covered under the 8yr/100,000 mile battery pack warranty. I owned 2 FEH’s and this is not acceptable to me. After heated discussions in this thread, one owner claimed he got his fans covered by using the HVTB pack assembly part number. I had suspected this was a Ford employee trying to give a short term solution before Ford was faced with some bad media about there Hybrids and their warranties. This solved a number of complaints here because owners got the repair under the 8yr/100,000 mile warranty.

Now that every FEH owner with bad HVTB fans is being turned down again, I think Ford should give up on these bad warranty practices or face a media war from existing owners. Clearly the 2012 FEH Ford PDF http://www.ford.com/resources/ford/g...idWarranty.pdf states these fans are covered on pages 9 & 10.


GaryG

 

Gary: can you please direct me to this language in the manuals? I believe it would be a huge help and suspected something to that effect might be in there, but have been unable to find it.

Thanks in advance.

 

-The hybrid battery pack wiring harness service recall was issued in September 2007.

-The internal hybrid battery pack cooling fan part number is:
5M6Z-10C659-A.
If one attempts to order the hybrid battery pack cooling fans via the above number like at Blue Springs Ford for a 2005 Escape Hybrid:
Part Number "5M6Z-10C659-A." was found for FORD, but we could not verify the part fits the selected vehicle.--(gee, what vehicle will is work in?)
You may still purchase this part below.

Quick OrderPart Number5M6Z10C659A Part NameKIT - HV BATTERY COO MSRP$240.53Core$0.00Online Price$220.09

-The workshop reference:
so be it. I own two FEH and have copies of the '05 and '09 Workshop Manuals. They both say if the cooling fans stop working, with DTC's POA81 or POA96, check the 6-pin and 40pin connection to the HV battery, then replace the battery if they still don't work (Section 414-03-18 and 19).

Have a good day

 

I just read this whole thread and I have to say that the fans in my '06 FEH still work but when I can afford to, I think I'm going to sell my FEH.

When I read that Ford was discontinuing the FEH, I was surprised. Now I suspect they just don't want to deal with it and it's special problems anymore.

 

The C-Max is receiving total hybrid integration. If Ford was not interested in hybrid vehicles, the Fusion Hybrid would also be in the grave yard.

 

Billy copied part of my old post for the sections I've quoted in this thread in the past. Section 414-03 describes normal operation of the HVTB and the test to determine repairs needed. The section is quite clear that the fans are part of the HVTB. The only repair discussed within the HVTB is the TBCM which ask the tech to flash the TBCM with the latest software Refer to section 418-01. It also says if the concern is still present, INSTALL a new HVTB. This is in section 414-03-7. All other repairs inside the HVTB call for replacement of the HVTB. No where in any of the Helms manuals does it discuss opening the HVTB pack to replace parts.

Section 414-03-5 discusses a DTC P0A80- Replace Hybrid Battery Pack (End of Useful Life) and had this as a Note: "The customer may choose to not replace the battery pack due to cost of the replacement. If a new HVTB is not installed, the customer will experience reduced fuel economy and reduced power, which will eventually lead to a failure of the HVTB."

Ford knows exactly what they're doing here by not replacing the fans or the HVTB. There is a reason why Ford wants you to pay to have your battery opened up and replace the fans. This is not permitted according to the Helms Workshop Manuals. My guess is they don't want to be responsible for the damage for breaking the seal. This was a concern of mine when Ford replaced the internal wire harness, I started hearing the fans after that. Who know, this could lead to early failure of the HVTB and become a liability for Ford after the warranty expires.

Hope this helps!

GaryG

 

Good God, will this never end?

GatorJ - It's mind numbing, but if you haven't already then you will need to read all of the posts on this thread, including all that I posted since I'm the most recent one (well, until now) to have had this problem and finally get it resolved.

What gets me is that while most dealers key in the part number and it states that the internal cooling fan is not covered by the warranty, a few other dealers enter the exact same part number and it shows that the part IS covered by the warranty. Case in point is the PDF receipt that shows up in one of the thread's posts. Same place I called when I was having my problems and that dealership said that clearly the part is covered and it showed it as covered when he'd entered the part number into the Ford database.

It cost me lots of time and caused lots of headaches fighting this, but in the end I got my $900 back from Ford and it's left me with a dislike of Ford Motor Company. I would never recommend to anyone that they buy a Ford hybrid of any model.

Good luck and if, after you've read my posts, you have any questions, post them here and I will do what I can to help.

Scott

 

Is a dealer required to follow exactly what the service manual states? I can name several instances where they don't and at least one TSB that some dealers haven't followed. Another TSB which was superceded twice which still didn't cure the problem, so Ford started to call it "normal" operation. A later change seemed to have cured the problem.

 

Look Bill, we are not telling Ford or the dealer how to fix the problem. Ford and the dealers are saying the fans are not covered under the HVTB warranty. This is like Ford claiming a connecting rod is not part of drivetrain warranty.

You have access to the Helms FEH Manuals, can't you read them and understand them? Your Electronics cooling pump should be covered under the Hybrid warranty also was from left field like Gator stated.

GaryG