I just heard from a 2007 FEH owner who says that in addition to the freon ( 134a) coolent lines running back to the HV battery, there are also 2 rubber hoses that appear to be heater hoses with hot radiator water.

Can any of you proud new 2007 owners peek around under and near the HV battery and confirm or deny this? TIA

IF this is true, then this is a very cool upgrade, and my opinion of Ford just went up a notch. I am really struggling to get good mileage ( Above 32 MPG ) in the 7th coldest winter on record. A battery heater would be nice and help a lot.

-John

 

I seriously doubt it....at least not with water from the radiator.

1. Water and batteries aren't a good mix.
2. The batteries should be "warmed" by the charging process and subsequent discharging....and probably faster than they would waiting for the radiator to heat up the water.
3. It would be a pretty big engineering change to design, test and implement in the last year before a new version is released.

If they do "heat" the batteries, I'd think they would do it electrically not using the radiator. I'm guessing this owner is seeing some kind of electrical wiring that is covered with conduit or flexible covering of some sort....or maybe even the tubing for the rear washer fluid. I've seen write-ups about an electric heater for the battery as far back as 2005 but haven't actually seen it. If it was on the '05 its on the '07. If its on the '07, chances are its on the 05 and 06 as well.

** If you google "ford escape hybrid battery heater" you'll find articles dating back to the 2005 Hybrid that all say almost word for word the same thing....

"Cold weather won't affect battery operation because it has a thermal management system to deal with temperatures from minus 40 degrees to 122 degrees Fahrenheit. An electric heater and forced-air cooling system help keep the battery comfortable."

 

There is a heat exchanger ( aka "evaporator core" ) in all models where warm air is blown across to get chilled via the air conditioning system. This is in the air column in the side of the car. Not "in" the battery pack.

It is VERY do-able to circulate warm water through this same heat exchanger when in very cold conditions.

The FEH radiator water is hot in 30-60 seconds.

It takes me 10 minutes or more of driving to warm the battery by "usage".

Let's stick to facts, and avoid "theories". Thanks. I don't own a 2007, this is why I'm asking.

 

I have a 2007 so I guess I am allowed to respond. I feel special.

For a Hybrid technologist, you would think you would have sense enough to just drive by a dealer and look under a new one on the lot. But I guess you can't be bothered. Well, after the tone you took with the last poster, I can't be bothered looking under mine for you.

No wonder this site is dead.

 

I guess I'm some kind of law-breaker for posting again.....but I will anyway. I thought this was a "discussion board" not a place for the posting of factual information only. Furthermore, just having an 07 doesn't necessarily help answer the question either as I wouldn't expect an owner to be able to determine if this is the case simply by looking at the vehicle. Since I don't have an 07 but an 06, I thought I would post the reasons why I thought this person's observations were unlikely to be correct....and again why I question the following.

1. Being "very doable" doesn't mean anything when it comes to engineering a change like this in a vehicle. Physically being about to run a water line somewhere is only a tiny little piece of the puzzle and who knows if there is actually room to do so. What about design and fabrication of all of the parts, testing the whole system, changing the assembly line to implement it, re-programming the computer to circulate warm water and run the fan, etc. This is not a minor change that an automaker is likely to implement in the last year before a model overhaul.

2. Blowing air across a tube of warm water and then over a battery isn't exactly the most efficient way to warm it up which is why an electric heater makes much more sense.

3. Have you actually measured your radiator fluid temperature after 30-60 seconds? There is more than a gallon of fluid in the radiator (though I haven't actually measured it so I could be off) and I'd be really surprised if the engine could heat a gallon of cold liquid in under a minute. Also, are you able to measure the HV battery temperature? How do you know how long it takes to warm up through charge/discharge cycles? Does the scangauge provide either of these two measurements? I would think radiator temp might be a common stat but is battery temp reported?

 

DENVERJAY...Thought of that already... did a "Dealer Inventory Search" and there are zero FEH on dealer lots within a 50 mile radius. A good thought though!

 

1. Yes, sounds strange to me also, which is why I want confirmation from more than one 2007 owner. I know poor (battery) performance in cold was (is) a major complaint / concern. While I'm skeptical, maybe Ford listened?

2. Not really. Electric heater would be less efficient. You have waste heat to dump from the engine... you do not have "waste watts" to power an electric heater.

3. Yes. I have a digital display of both water temperature, and battery temperature. From a cold start at 15'F water is to 100'F to 110'F in 60 seconds. This is probably in a closed loop, pre-radiator. Fans Off.
Battery takes 10 minutes or more to reach 60'F. ( With cabin heat on, etc... )
People all over in cold climates report back that the FEH has cabin heat very, very quickly. I have to agree!

 

My wife is at work so I cannot look until she gets home but I will look then and report back my findings if someone else hasn't stepped up by then.
Clif

 

Another thought I had was that I'm questioning whether they would use traditional rubber hoses to pump hot water that distance rather than use some sort of metal tubing like they do for the coolant. I'm sticking with the theory that it is either washer fluid or wire conduit this person saw.

Well, I don't know if that is entirely true.

Firstly, the ICE is running so presumably it would just be a matter of drawing electricity from the alternator or traction motor to run current through a heating element in the battery. While that would probably result in a slight decrease in FE (just like running headlights and the radio would), so would powering a pump to move the heated water from the radiator, to the rear of the vehicle and back.

Secondly, I think that a heating element (think an electric blanket for the batteries) would work much faster than air over circulating hot water, but that's just a guess really.

 

If there was a heater for the HV battery for the '07 FEH/MMH, it would be something Ford would have wanted to patent. The present Ford HV battery patent shows the cells placed to get optimum air cooling, and has no mention of heating. Since Ford is trying to cut cost and still claims they are losing money on the FEH/MMH, changing design would only add to that problem. Another issue with Ford and the FEH/MMH is they are not going to a lithium ION battery on the '08 like I had heard. Instead, Ford is going to a smaller Lithium battery in their other '08 hybrid models. My bet is the '08 FEH/MMH HV battery is the exact battery and ventilation system in the '05. It appears the design of the ventilation system for the FEH/MMH will only change when a different battery is considerred. JMHO of course.

Just a reminder about the compartment heater, keep it off if you can during warm-up. Shut it off whenever you can and this goes for the vent position also. In any position other than off, a heater pump runs and circulates coolant through the heater core. Why circulate coolant that would only cool down more when your trying to keep the engine hot? Don't forget that this is a 12V coolant pump that uses energy. I've stopped using the vent during the summer for this reason, and also can tell the air is warmer than the outside air if I do. This information comes out of the '05 PCM/ED manual page 1-63.

GaryG