Economic logic of hybrids
 

FWIW, according to my calcualtions, the only hybrids I know of that are likely makes economic sense are the Prius and other small car hybrids (not sure about the Accord). By that I mean you will save more in gas costs over a reasonable amount of mileage than you pay extra to get the hybrid.

FEH's usually probably don't make economic sense, but it is close enough that one could justify it to be more "green." Most of the other hybrids I have come across don't make sense to own even if one wants to be green. It would make more sense to make a (deductible) charitable donation to an enviromental group.

If anyone has calculations proving me wrong, I would love to know about it.

Re: Economic logic of hybrids
 

Folks will buy a Land Rover, a Lexus, BMW or other expensive SUV. What's the economic logic of that? You could ask this question about anything above basic transportation. You can buy 10 different cars, new, for $15k or less. Anything more makes very little economic sense, though there are lots of "justifiable" reasons to pay more, mostly hedonistic but some actually practical.

RayP

Re: Economic logic of hybrids
 

I bought my 09 FEH during the clunker program this past summer (remember that?) and replaced a 96 Blazer with 180k miles that had a failing transmission. I had to get a another SUV, since we have 3 dogs to carts around, wanted to do my part for environment and was pleasantly surprised how much fun the FEH is to drive. I wanted to buy American, didn't want to buy from a bankrupt company and since I keep my vehicles for as long as possible (I have a 96 Acura with 200k+ miles) I figured I will make up for the extra cost of a hybrid by getting better gas mileage. (32 mpg, vs 19 mpg on the Blazer)

I'll let you know in 13 years how it all works out, economically, as I'm keeping books on this.

Re: Economic logic of hybrids
 

The FEH offers "utility" flexibility that "most" other hybrids can't. I can tow a trailer (I own a small trailer that hauls various nordic ski grooming equipment) that a Prius or similar hybrid can not. I do not have to pay a rental fee for a tow vehicle making it more cost effective.

Those donations you referred to might become "useless" if one realizes or can track how much is utilized for other than the purpose it is intended. :omg:

Re: Economic logic of hybrids
 

All depends on how you look at it. Buying a new (not replacement) vehicle, then you can compare a gas/hybrid equaly, of your trading in/replacing, that is different.

At the time I bought mine, gas was $3.80 and climbing (in oil country) my mini van was getting 17mpg (Feh is 32). My family size just decreased to 4, and I still have an Expedition for hauling lots of cargo, towing, etc.

I haven't kept good gas records (for price, just mpg) but using $3 average, I have saved $2400 in 3 yrs of driving, $130 in oil changes (enviormently friendly here too?), plus who knows what in repairs.
I got mine when it qualified for $3500 fed rebate, plus $12-1500 state, so my purchase price was equivelent to a gas only model, about $23-24k (going from memory).

I aslo plan on owning this one until it quits, 10, 20yrs down the road.

Then who knows what the new fad will be, hopefully hydrogen, we can all fill up on water! (let's see the lobbying big oil does then!)

I also didn't buy mine to make a statement, or to be enviormently friendly, I bout it to be green, as in my pocket, save $ over time.

Also right about the charities, while some the overhead is small <10%, some are quite high, 50%+ Not sure where I saw a list a while back, but it was suprising.

Re: Economic logic of hybrids
 

Cute post. If the criteria is solely a hybrid vehicle, mabye. But the Pruis doesn't necessarily come out on top. A cursory review of heads-up 2010 Insight vs 2010 Pruis articles out there in the ether shows the Insight may be the more logical choice based on the pencil:

From Edmunds http://www.insideline.com/toyota/pri...ota-prius.html:

"A hard look at the true costs of hybrid car ownership will likely lead you to conclude that the 2010 Honda Insight is the more sensible choice, simply because you can buy a lot of gas with the money you save. (By our math, you'd have to put more than 580,000 miles on a 2010 Prius to make up the difference.)"

Putting logic aside that same article had this to say about reasons to buy a Prius:

"Sure, the 2010 Honda Insight might be cheaper and a little more fun, but for 95 percent of your motoring existence, the more practical 2010 Toyota Prius awaits, ready to serve your every commuting need. It also happens to be the more iconic of these two cars, and regardless of what anyone tells you, image matters when you're living with a hybrid."


Here it depends on your criteria. Buying any car is dependent on the needs of the buyer, that in itself will have logical aspects as well as emotional criteria. For instance you can't buy a Prius with 4WD or the ultility of the FEH, while the Ford (or US) brand may mean something to many as well.

So nope, probably can't justify your particular aquisition based purely on the pencil. In any case purchasing a Prius or other small commuter type hybrids only fly's if it fits the needs of the buyer. If it doesn't it could be an impractical, maybe even an irrational purchase. It certainly didn't make sense to us to buy a small single use commuter. So we bought the FEH vs the FE. It has paid the hybrid premium (less fed and state tax credits) long ago.

Re: Economic logic of hybrids
 

The FEH has a gas Escape you are comparing to for the hybrid cost and the Prius has no gas version to compare to. The fact is a Prius without the hybrid system would most likely be priced the same or lower than the same gas version of the Escape percentage and dollar wise than the FEH. Toyota doesn't want a disaster gas version Prius to be compared to a Prius Hybrid.

Now, lets compare the Camary Hybrid to the Fusion Hybrid and the FEH to the Highlander Hybrid and talk economic logic. There was no market for the Accord Hybrid so that was dropped. That leaves the Prius as the only vehicle to be compared to the much bigger Fusion and Escape Hybrid which is way out of its class. The Ford full hybrid system allows EV mode without the recharging MPG downfalls of the Prius after battery drain.

The fact also is, that resale value alone pays for the cost of the FEH over the the gas version Escape so the Hybrid systems pays entirely for itself after 3 years. My '09 FWD FEHL gave me a $3,000 tax credit that I completely used and I'm averaging over 100% of the Prius combine EPA rating. http://www.cleanmpg.com/index.php?page=garage&displayunits=MPG(US)&viewcar =2612

By next year at this time my '09 FEH will have the highest percentage of all lifetime combined EPA ratings of all non plug-in hybrids in the World with 30,000 miles or more. This is with a big handicap of a Florida mandate of E10 compared to hybrids that use straight gas.

GaryG

Re: Economic logic of hybrids
 

In general you are correct, but the FEH has much more flexibility as a vehicle.

Also, it is best to compare similar vehicles, so the correct comparison is the Escape ICE, or a similar small SUV. There are some who claim better MPG at highway speeds, but for a suburban family who primarily drives in town, the FEH wins hands down - but would still take many years to make up the "hybrid premium".

Last, don't forget the fun factor - I have a great time maximizing my MPG, while still driving a highly functional SUV.

Re: Economic logic of hybrids
 

I've been driving slower and more carefully to hypermile the FEH than I did before, and I swear it is going to lengthen my life. Hypermiling is fun and literally has lowered my blood pressure. What's the economic value in that?

RayP
------------
Last 4 tanks:
40.8
40.8
39.9
37.7 (getting colder here, longer warmups on my 2.5mi commute)

Re: Economic logic of hybrids
 

Priceless! Winner, winner, chicken dinner!