FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
#61
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
Here's a video with an early model 4WD FEH doing some off road passes and definitely engaging the rear wheel drive. You could expect similar drive train behavior in cold climates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1iHGwj7MUA
At 5:17 there's a big flex put on the suspension and you see alternate front and rear wheels spin at the same time. That is followed by a somewhat impressive hill climb.
I expect all 2005-2008 models would perform the same as in the video but I can't help but wonder if the 2009+ models would do better with assist from the AdvanceTrac programming/controls.
(Sorry, wwest, it doesn't look like they disabled the FWD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1iHGwj7MUA
At 5:17 there's a big flex put on the suspension and you see alternate front and rear wheels spin at the same time. That is followed by a somewhat impressive hill climb.
I expect all 2005-2008 models would perform the same as in the video but I can't help but wonder if the 2009+ models would do better with assist from the AdvanceTrac programming/controls.
(Sorry, wwest, it doesn't look like they disabled the FWD)
Unless you can disable the traction control functionality I rather doubt the newer FE or FEH could get up that ramp.
#62
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
Interesting video...
At 53 seconds, and again at 1:06, there is clear indication that the FEH rear drive is LOCKED "on", as we see the passenger side rear tire spin, as if being "driven" in both instances. Obviously no TRAC system.
At exactly 5.0 minutes the passenger side front tire breaks traction partially and starts throwing dirt, and the driver side rear spins freely. Exactly as one would expect with fully open diff'ls front and rear and a locked "transfer". With true 4WD, solid coupling between front and rear, two wheels must lose traction for you to be "stuck". Add an LSD at the rear and it takes 3 wheels having lost traction to be/get stuck. LSD also at the front....
The only other possibility is that this has the new F/awd system but with TRAC disabled and the rear clutch wired "HOT". Just the way I might rig it for "cold climate" wintertime adverse roadbed conditions, a TRUE (part-time) 4WD
At 53 seconds, and again at 1:06, there is clear indication that the FEH rear drive is LOCKED "on", as we see the passenger side rear tire spin, as if being "driven" in both instances. Obviously no TRAC system.
At exactly 5.0 minutes the passenger side front tire breaks traction partially and starts throwing dirt, and the driver side rear spins freely. Exactly as one would expect with fully open diff'ls front and rear and a locked "transfer". With true 4WD, solid coupling between front and rear, two wheels must lose traction for you to be "stuck". Add an LSD at the rear and it takes 3 wheels having lost traction to be/get stuck. LSD also at the front....
The only other possibility is that this has the new F/awd system but with TRAC disabled and the rear clutch wired "HOT". Just the way I might rig it for "cold climate" wintertime adverse roadbed conditions, a TRUE (part-time) 4WD
Last edited by wwest; 09-30-2009 at 05:20 PM.
#63
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
This is a bit of a Subaru commercial, but I like the ramp system that was used to test the AWD systems of the various vehicles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw
Any thoughts on how the FEH AWD would perform on the ramp tests? Would it be as good as the Subaru seems to be?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw
Any thoughts on how the FEH AWD would perform on the ramp tests? Would it be as good as the Subaru seems to be?
With a FWD or F/awd vehicle so as not to compromise safety through inadvertent loss of directional control the Traction Control firmware MUST be written to INSTANTLY brake both front wheels should one begin slipping while simultaneously dethrottling the engine.
Had the CR-V the ability to increase the drive coefficient to the rear, as does the FE/FEH, it would have easily made it up that ramp with the front wheels on "ice".
#64
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
As I said about understanding the engineering…
The way one would monitor the temp of a solenoid, if you’re not interested in an accurate temp reading, just protection from over temp… would be to monitor the current flow. When it falls below a certain point there is an over temp.
And of course copper wire can be used to do this. When you do it with a solenoid the large amount of wire involved makes it more and more accurate as the number of turns of wire increases.
Come on guys, let simple things remain simple.
Sheesh… give a guy a scan gauge and he’s an instant rocket scientist…
The way one would monitor the temp of a solenoid, if you’re not interested in an accurate temp reading, just protection from over temp… would be to monitor the current flow. When it falls below a certain point there is an over temp.
And of course copper wire can be used to do this. When you do it with a solenoid the large amount of wire involved makes it more and more accurate as the number of turns of wire increases.
Come on guys, let simple things remain simple.
Sheesh… give a guy a scan gauge and he’s an instant rocket scientist…
#65
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
#66
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
Hi,
I'm thinking about trading in my Durango which is now 6 yrs old and I;m getting concerned that a brake job and engine leaks may turn it into a money pit in the year. So I'm thinking about a hybrid. Specifically the FEH 4x4. The reason being that it's a 4x4, has a decent amount of clearance, and it's a Ford which most of our vehicles have been and we've had no problems.
My question is this. I live in Alaska. Winter driving conditions involve the usual heavy snow but also constant sub zero temperatures. Will this pose any issues for the vehicle? Also, can an auto start be installed without any problems? What about a battery blanket. We use those here for the regular batteries and the engine block.
I will go speak with the dealer next week, but I'd like to have a second opinion as well. I would really love to get this car!
Thanks,
Irene
I'm thinking about trading in my Durango which is now 6 yrs old and I;m getting concerned that a brake job and engine leaks may turn it into a money pit in the year. So I'm thinking about a hybrid. Specifically the FEH 4x4. The reason being that it's a 4x4, has a decent amount of clearance, and it's a Ford which most of our vehicles have been and we've had no problems.
My question is this. I live in Alaska. Winter driving conditions involve the usual heavy snow but also constant sub zero temperatures. Will this pose any issues for the vehicle? Also, can an auto start be installed without any problems? What about a battery blanket. We use those here for the regular batteries and the engine block.
I will go speak with the dealer next week, but I'd like to have a second opinion as well. I would really love to get this car!
Thanks,
Irene
Someone will undoubtedly dispute this but I am of the firm belief that Ford makes use of the US patent they were granted a few years ago. The patent describes a technique wherein the regen capability of FWD hybrids are significantly reduced when the OAT is near or below freezing. The technique also calls for disabling regen the INSTANT ABS detects the need to activate.
My advice for operating an FEH in the wintertime in Alaska would be to disable, drop, one front halfshaft, provide a CONSTANT 12 volts to the rear driveline clutch and install a resistor in parallel with the OAT thermistor. You'd have a dramatically SAFER FEH for wintertime use and since ALL regen would be at the rear drive wheels there would be little need for sub-freezing OAT detection.
#67
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
Someone will undoubtedly dispute this but I am of the firm belief that Ford makes use of the US patent they were granted a few years ago. The patent describes a technique wherein the regen capability of FWD hybrids are significantly reduced when the OAT is near or below freezing. .
.
#68
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
The regen amperage / wattage is reduce based solely on battery temperature.
Some people, like Willard have jumped to false conclusions, since after a very long idle period, the battery temp. will be very close to outside air temperature.
If you keep the battery warm(er) by parking indoors, and/or use a heater, the regen is not reduced, no matter how cold it is outside.
After a few miles of use, a cold battery will become warm(er) on it's own, and regen will be restored.
Either Willard West is a lier, or mine and Billy's and 5 other Ford Escape Hybrid owners have malfunctioning cars. Which all malfunction in exactly the same way, and allow full regen in all weather.
You decide.
For what it's worth, the 2005's don't even have an outside air temperature sensor. So how's the car going to know when weather approaches freezing?
Some people, like Willard have jumped to false conclusions, since after a very long idle period, the battery temp. will be very close to outside air temperature.
If you keep the battery warm(er) by parking indoors, and/or use a heater, the regen is not reduced, no matter how cold it is outside.
After a few miles of use, a cold battery will become warm(er) on it's own, and regen will be restored.
Either Willard West is a lier, or mine and Billy's and 5 other Ford Escape Hybrid owners have malfunctioning cars. Which all malfunction in exactly the same way, and allow full regen in all weather.
You decide.
For what it's worth, the 2005's don't even have an outside air temperature sensor. So how's the car going to know when weather approaches freezing?
Last edited by gpsman1; 10-01-2009 at 03:08 PM.
#69
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
Hi,
I'm thinking about trading in my Durango which is now 6 yrs old and I;m getting concerned that a brake job and engine leaks may turn it into a money pit in the year. So I'm thinking about a hybrid. Specifically the FEH 4x4. The reason being that it's a 4x4, has a decent amount of clearance, and it's a Ford which most of our vehicles have been and we've had no problems.
My question is this. I live in Alaska. Winter driving conditions involve the usual heavy snow but also constant sub zero temperatures. Will this pose any issues for the vehicle? Also, can an auto start be installed without any problems? What about a battery blanket. We use those here for the regular batteries and the engine block.
I will go speak with the dealer next week, but I'd like to have a second opinion as well. I would really love to get this car!
Thanks,
Irene
I'm thinking about trading in my Durango which is now 6 yrs old and I;m getting concerned that a brake job and engine leaks may turn it into a money pit in the year. So I'm thinking about a hybrid. Specifically the FEH 4x4. The reason being that it's a 4x4, has a decent amount of clearance, and it's a Ford which most of our vehicles have been and we've had no problems.
My question is this. I live in Alaska. Winter driving conditions involve the usual heavy snow but also constant sub zero temperatures. Will this pose any issues for the vehicle? Also, can an auto start be installed without any problems? What about a battery blanket. We use those here for the regular batteries and the engine block.
I will go speak with the dealer next week, but I'd like to have a second opinion as well. I would really love to get this car!
Thanks,
Irene
I hope I can offer some input from experience. Keep in mind that I live in southern BC Rockies and not in Alaska...
I personally own a 2008 FEH FWD. Only minor problems last year winter where we had many days of heavy snowfall which resulted in roads not being properly cleared and a variety of driving conditions. And that was with the stock mud and snow all-terain tires that came with it, although I do plan on swapping to winters this season.
My parents liked our FEH so much, they bought a 2009 FEH AWD. They live in the same town as me and had no problems either. Their home is located at the top of a steep road and they had no problems plowing through this despite the conditions.
As for cold starting, I'm not sure if I can offer the advice you're looking for. I can say that -15 degrees F wasn't a problem, but I suspect you're looking at much colder than that. We do have a block heater and it worked well, although we park in a heated garage so it really was only used during the day while my wife was at work.
As for the hybrid battery, you may or may not be aware that it is located in the rear storage area which is open to the passenger compartment so it isn't exposed to the elements.
I'm not really sure about a remote starter, but there seems to be one person who has it over in this thread:
https://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/...starter-16225/
I hope that helps answer your questions at least a little bit.
#70
Re: FEH and extreme cold climates-any issues?
A battery blanket is not practical for the hybrid battery. But also, probably not needed either. The hybrid battery starts the car. The standard 12v battery under the hood is used to turn on the electronics that allow the car to start. It does not need to put out a lot of power since it does not start the car. But it may benefit from the traditional battery blanket you speak about.
I've used mine just fine at -17'F but don't park it for more than 12 hours at those temperatures between drives which warm everything back up.
HTH, -John
I've used mine just fine at -17'F but don't park it for more than 12 hours at those temperatures between drives which warm everything back up.
HTH, -John