Ford Explorer Hybrid "old" details
 

Go to these link:
http://www.mail-archive.com/sustaina.../msg09698.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._/ai_n26654581



to read about the "mild hybrid Explorer" that Ford was developing. I don't have all the details of this but would this development been similar to the Honda and GM mild hybrid design?

Re: Ford Explorer Hybrid "old" details
 

I think Ford was correct here. Mild Hybrid technology wasn't worth the R&D money at the time. Sales have proven this to be true. Just look at how many mild hybrids GMC sells as compared to the FEH. In August 2008, GMC sold 831 (includes Malibu, Vue, and Aura) while Ford sold 1,338 FEH/MMH. And borrowing from Ford, Saturn is going full hybrid with the Vue soon.

With the full hybrid Fusion due at the beginning of 2009, I don't see GMC closing that sales gap (that's assuming anyone can get financing so there are ANY car sales :( )

Ford also spent their R&D money on the EcoBoost TDI (called Twin Force at the time) which is reported to have better FE and lower emissions (and I expect will hit their 25MPG target in an Explorer). If they can couple EcoBoost with the direct injection ability to self start (bump start?), they can get the Stop/Start advantage without the need for the big starter/alternator combo and it associated equipment.

I maintain that the benefit for mild hybrid technology with respect to it's cost is only good when implemented across a LARGE number of vehicles. For a company with limited R&D funds, Ford was right to dump the mild hybrid option.

Re: Ford Explorer Hybrid "old" details
 

A large portion of the in-town MPG losses by ICE vehicles is accountable to two things: 1)Acceleration from a stop, and 2) Idling the engine while stopped.

A mild hybrid alleviates some of the effects of both issues. The Honda Civic Hybrid is a mild hybrid and it returns MPG about twice the normal (AT) Civic.

Obviously a dual mode hybrid is better, but it might have been cheaper (and thus easier to add to an existing design) to have a mild hybrid as well.

Re: Ford Explorer Hybrid "old" details
 

The Honda makes it a little harder to do a apples to apples comparison between the hybrid and non-hybrid model since they don't use the same engine. How much better FE would the standard Civic get if it had the 1339cc engine instead of the 1799cc? Then you can figure the hybrid system's advantage.

In the Malibu, Vue, Aura and FEH/MMH they use the same size engine in the non-hybrid so the mild hybrid system effects are easier to determine. I calculate 9-12% for the Malibu and Aura for example.

Re: Ford Explorer Hybrid "old" details
 

But that is just the point; the IMA allows the HCH to use a smaller engine and get similar performance to the larger, ICE-only Civic. If you put an OTTO cycle 1.3L in a Civic automatic, it would be a dog.

Re: Ford Explorer Hybrid "old" details
 

As does Ford's EcoBoost technology. The idea is to reduce engine size/weight and still have acceptable performance. Ford took their R&D money and went a different direction and will end up with a similar outcome.

I'm not sure I agree with this. If you look at the output of the 1339cc (110HP) and the 1799 (140HP) you'll see that the 25% (450cc) smaller engine has 21% less power while using the less powerful atkinson cycle (30HP). I'm sure some of that power would be recovered if the atkinson cycle wasn't used on the non-hybrid.

Let's say that they get 125HP out of the 1.3L Otto, that would put it within 1.5lb/hp (20.3 vs 21.5) of the Saturn Aura (that's also using the weight of the 1.8L in the civic so the number would be closer). Not quite a dog in my opinion. Besides, who's looking at acceleration/performance in this scenario? I was just trying to get to an apples to apples comparison of what the mild hybrid brings to the table and how Ford's decision not to go that route was correct for them.

You can certainly argue that Honda went the right direction for them as they already have extensive efficient I-4 experience and have a majority of lighter vehicles in their fleet. Ford does not. There's no I-4 engine option in the Explorer (or most of their other models either) so Ford needed to go a different route.

Re: Ford Explorer Hybrid "old" details
 

Here's a press release regarding Ford's efforts in the EcoBoost area...
FORD TO EQUIP HALF A MILLION VEHICLES WITH ECOBOOST ENGINE TECHNOLOGY FOR UP TO 20% BETTER FUEL ECONOMY