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sdctcher 04-25-2005 08:08 PM

Ford Hybrid Problems
 
I love my car but one of the benefits of having an internet with locations where FEH owners can exchange data is an early warning system for problems with the model year so we can get data to the engineers so they can fix them in our cars and in the next model year.

As recently as yesterday I have posted opinions on websites lauding the lack of bugs in the 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid.

I am looking for reports from owners or from others who have heard about problems.

I have documented at least three instances of rear auxillary coolant pump (for the battery) failures since January, several of which were personally investigated by Ford Engineers. All of these caused the car to roll to a stop without warning.

I have reports of a catastrophic brake failure which caused an owner to use the emergency brake. This was diagnosed as an ABS Module failure.

As far as I know there is currently no recall nor TSB in affect for these. Unfortunately, in order to access TSBs we must purchase a subscription from Motorcraft or others.

Tonight I noticed a lack of power to my 110 volt outlet. There is still 110 volts but almost no current to run something. I want to document others who seem to be having an inverter failure.

Please post any information that I can pass on to Ford. Please be aware that I will probably email you in order to authenticate claims of problems.

Thanks,
Mike

cdbrow1 04-27-2005 09:56 AM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
Mike I think you have the details on my breakdown. I didn't think about it being a rear coolant pump, until now. I did die without warning. I now have a small coolant leak at the fittings at the battery. I was getting ready to install my hitch when I noticed the hose was damp. I'm waiting until I have time to get the drip fixed before I do the hitch (obviously).

Chris Brown

No brake problems or 110 outlet trouble on my end.

cdbrow1 04-28-2005 04:53 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
The Drip turns out to be condensation from the battery cooling hose. This sounds slightly fishy to me, but I will watch and see.

Anyway she continues to run well with the new cooling pump.

Chris Brown

10500 Miles

ogakor 04-28-2005 09:57 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
Mike, my problem is minor but vexing. As you know, I've been trying for months to locate the source of popping on the AM radio on 530 and 740 AM. My Ford service shop and I have finally traced the problem to the 110VAC inverter, and we both found the noise in other similiarly equiped FEH vehicles. Unfortunately for me, the one AM station I listen to is at 740. I've had to pull the under-hood fuse on the converter to disable it and stop the noise. That makes the hundred-plus bucks I spent on that option somewhat less worthwhile. The shop says Ford's technical service department will not authorize an inverter replacement because, in their view, the inverter is not defective. I think it's a shielding/grounding/location issue, but I'm not getting anywhere and it's not worth my time or energy to fight this very hard. It would be great if a Ford tech with a little time to kill might figure out a solution. Thanks.

stevewa 04-29-2005 12:17 AM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
Mike, you describe a "rear cooling pump" but there is no coolant pump in the battery area. The only thing going to the HV battery for cooling is AC refrigerant, which as you probably know doesn't require any pump except for the compressor (which is up front of course).

I think the pump in question is in the motor/electronics coolant loop which is all contained under the hood.

See section 307-02B, "Transaxle/Transmission Cooling -- Escape Hybrid" item number 4 in the diagram.

stevewa 04-29-2005 12:18 AM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 

Originally Posted by cdbrow1
The Drip turns out to be condensation from the battery cooling hose. This sounds slightly fishy to me, but I will watch and see.

Anyway she continues to run well with the new cooling pump.

Chris Brown

10500 Miles

AC lines (the low pressure side, anyway) get very cold in operation. Condensation is perfectly normal.

sdctcher 05-01-2005 04:00 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
Right Steve.
I did not mean the pump was in the rear, only that it served the battery pack.

stevewa 05-01-2005 04:09 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 

Originally Posted by sdctcher
Right Steve.
I did not mean the pump was in the rear, only that it served the battery pack.

But that's my point. It doesn't serve the battery pack. It serves the motors and the DC/DC converter.

The only fluid that goes to the rear is AC refrigerant.

You don't want coolant going the length of the vehicle...trust me I had a Vanagon.

GaryG 05-03-2005 07:24 AM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
I have had a strong burning smell come and go three times now. First time around 3,000 miles for about 3 minutes. Second time was real brief a few days later. The third time I thought the FEH was going to burn up. No smoke, but the smell was like the electric motor had burned up. Very toxic for about three minutes again. I had a bad taste for a few hours in my lungs.

Everything seems to work fine during and after the burning smell so I have not taken it back to the dealership.

bobv 05-03-2005 10:26 AM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
I have a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid that on about 10 ocassions has displayed an ABS warning light when the car is first started. The light goes out if the ignition is recycled. On a couple of ocassions I did not see the light and drove off and it was very difficult to stop the car, but it did stop with the regular brake pedal. I also have a "Check emissions" message in the display. They have changed the ABS module but same problem. Still in the shop.

Got the car back after three days. They changed the "jumper harness" and the battery. So far so good. I did get a "service emissions" message on the display but I read that this is normal if you turn the key to run but do not start the car.

sdctcher 05-03-2005 08:13 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
Steve-
Am I missing something here. If the coolent goes to the battery pack does it not become recycled through the A/C pump? See my discussion on the other site also.

stevewa 05-03-2005 09:25 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 

Originally Posted by sdctcher
Steve-
Am I missing something here. If the coolent goes to the battery pack does it not become recycled through the A/C pump? See my discussion on the other site also.

Perhaps it'll help if I parse the language a bit more precisely. In particular I want to differentiate between "coolant" and "refrigerant" and between "pump" and "compressor".

I think we're talking about two different things...so I'll review the details of what systems cool what components so as to try and standardize our terminology.

1. The ICE is cooled by a conventional water-based cooling system, just like any "normal" car. This coolant loop also has an additional electric water pump (besides the engine-driven mechanical pump) to provide hot water to the passenger cabin heater when the ICE is shut down.

2. The Motor/Electronics coolant loop is also water-based. It has an electric pump, and runs coolant through the electric motor/generators in the transaxle, along with the inverters and the DC/DC converter.

3. The HV Battery is air-cooled. Two fans inside the battery pack circulate air across the cells, and several temperature sensors inside the pack monitor conditions. If the temperature in the battery pack gets too high, the battery pack controller will send a signal to the PCM requesting that the AC compressor be engaged to provide refrigerant (R134a) through the battery pack AC loop. A electrically-operated valve in the AC system can route refrigerant to the battery pack evaporator, the cabin evaporator, or both (apparently the "jump start" charger can also serve to _heat_ the battery pack, but that's another topic entirely).

So, we have a total of 3 coolant pumps (2 in the ICE loop and one in the M/E loop), and one AC compressor.

From the descriptions I've read, the TSB appears to deal with the coolant pump in the M/E loop. This makes sense because if coolant wasn't flowing through the M/E loop the motors and or inverters/DDC would quickly overheat and shut down the system. Incidentally this would light the high-temp idiot light on the dash, which can signal an overheat in either coolant loop.

Hope this helps.

bobv 05-04-2005 05:38 AM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
Is statement #3 then the reason that the engine does not always shut down when you stop? Because the AC is on?

Brynne Parrott 05-04-2005 12:11 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
O.K. Go very slow. I am but a simple accountant. When my car is in EV - I have no cool air. The air conditioner works find as long as I am not stopped or driving slow enough for EV. However, if waiting in traffic, the air stops being cool. Is this normal? It is especially a concern since I live in Florida and the very hot season is about to start. If normal, then I guess I will have to switch to Max Air during the summer when in traffic. Please let me know what you think

randykato 05-04-2005 01:12 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
The AC compressor is run off of the ICE... same as any 'regular' car. It's the compressor that chills the air (though it's not necessary to run the fan). So when you're using the AC (not set to Max), then when the ICE shuts down, so will your cold air. AC Max (and defrost) give the AC priority to run full-time and therefore keep the ICE running constantly - and thus reducing fuel efficiency.

stevewa 05-04-2005 03:13 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 

Originally Posted by bobv
Is statement #3 then the reason that the engine does not always shut down when you stop? Because the AC is on?

Could be, could also be the engine wants to run to charge your battery, or warm the engine/catalyst to optimal operating temperature.

There are many possibilities...but the AC is one of them.

stevewa 05-04-2005 03:15 PM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 

Originally Posted by randykato
The AC compressor is run off of the ICE... same as any 'regular' car. It's the compressor that chills the air (though it's not necessary to run the fan). So when you're using the AC (not set to Max), then when the ICE shuts down, so will your cold air. AC Max (and defrost) give the AC priority to run full-time and therefore keep the ICE running constantly - and thus reducing fuel efficiency.

Exactly. However, in very warm conditions, the AC may come on of its own volition to cool the battery, in that case it will also cool the cabin since you've selected the AC to the "on" position.

bobv 05-05-2005 05:26 AM

Re: Ford Hybrid Problems
 
You are right that without the engine running the AC will become warm that is why in max AC it forces the engine to run continuously.


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