Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Placed the order for our 09 FEH on 6/26
Black Pearl Slate
FWD, Nav & Sidesteps
Dealer says we should expect it around end of September, begining of October. Yay! :D :D
Any new cars we've bought in the past, we have changed the oil, tranny fluid and differential oil to synthetic somewhere between 5K & 10K miles. We did this to reduce engine wear, improve performance and increase (albeit slightly) fuel economy.

At the 10K mile oil change I was considering changing over to Mobile1 SuperSyn 15K mile (and continuing to change oil every 10K per Ford), Royal Purple ATF and Royal Purple Gear oil for the differential. Also considering a K&N air filter.

Since this is our first Hybrid and our first CVT transmission I'd like to hear from FEH owners before making these plans.

Sincerely,
Blind Mike & Michelle
TwoLostMinds

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

IMHO, do not switch out the eCVT fluid. The extended 100,000mi warranty on "hybrid unique components" is worth too much.

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Congrats!!!

I am planning on changing to regular Mobil 1 0-20W with my first oil change (vs. Supersyn). There are several people here using it here with good results and it should help with the mileage--especially in the winter. It exceeds all 5-20W specifications, and it is the same juice I use in the HCH so I can buy it in large quantities.

I've heard enough questionable stuff about K & N's that I've stopped using them (even though I didn't have problems with the one in my old Protoge). Supposedly they can lead to problems with the air sensors in the car if you use more spray oil than you are supposed to. I have had 02 sensor problems in a previous Ford so I'm not going to do anything that might encourage them in this car.

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Good point. I had the same concerns with the Hyundai Santa Fe transmission. Heard nightmares about people using non Hyundai/ non Mitsu tranny fluid and killing their transmissions and voiding their warrnaties. I didnt start using the Royal Purple in it until several others took the risk and were sucessful. Guess I'll leave the tranny fluid alone unless others do it sucessfully.

I've used K&N filters, AEM cone filters and WeaponR cone filters without a problem. As long as you hit the MAF sensor with a little ZeroRes MAF sensor cleaner at the time of each oil change there's no issue with oil buildup altering its readings. IMO, cleaning the MAF sensor should be standard preventative maintenance because of how much effect a dirty one can have on power and fuel economy. A $6 can from Napa usually lasts around 10 or 12 cleanings.

Sincerely,
Blind Mike & Michelle
TwoLostMinds

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

The factory fill in the CVT is already synthetic!

08feh

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

There are actually very few moving parts inside of this transmission. The fluid simply lubricates the steel belt and the pulleys.

Because of this the fluid is not exposed to the same types of extremes compared to a normal Automatic Transmission. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Almost right:

"The eCVT has no belts, either."
http://www.gulfcoastnews.com/RT2005FordEscapeHybrid.htm

There are no pulleys or chains either.

GaryG

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Gary-
I was looking at your signature, which shows 715 miles to empty and 30.4 MPG. This doesn't add up, unless you have a 23 gallon tank?

I got 30.6 on my last tank, and my distance to empty is around 485.

What is the story? Is there a larger tank on the 2005-2007 model?

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

You're misreading the instrument panel, that's not 30.4 MPG, that's 30.4 miles driven on the trip odometer.

The MTE (Miles To Empty) is based on your recent MPG, so the higher it is, the more miles to empty it figures you have on your tank. It's not uncommon for many of us to have 600-700+ mile tanks during the summer when our MPG is high. My own personal best was 675 miles on a tank.

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Ah, that makes sense. My 2008 has a single display, with rotating values, so my MPG is not displayed with my "Trip A" elapsed mileage.

I sometimes wish I'd gone for the FWD, though the wife likes the AWD for some reason. I'm having difficulty keeping it above 30.5 MPG.

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

My tank is the same size as all the FEH's, 15 gallons. The day I took that picture, I had a number of tanks which I exceeded over 50mpg. When I filled up on that tank and reset the trip OD, my MTE was 745. When I got home I got the camera and took the picture, my trip OD said I had put 30.4 miles on the FEH and I had a MTE of 715. If I had 15 gallons in the tank, at 0 MTE I would have use 13.7 gallons with 1.3 gallons remaining. If you take 745 MTE and divide it by 13.7 gallons, you get a 54.4mpg tank average. My best tank average before that fill was a little over 53mpg. The OEM computer was estimating I was going to average 54.4mpg based on prior mileage before the fill.

When I took that picture I was expecting to get higher MTE readings in the future, but the heat of the summer had set in and the Aux battery A/C started to run the compressor all the time. After about 25,000 miles on my FEH I started noticing a slow decrease in the HV battery efficiency. I also had some problems with some relays that had to be replaced that cause my KAM to reset the Long Term Fuel Maps. Now Florida has passed a law requiring E-10 (ethanol) to be in all gas in the State. Most likely I will never see that high of a MTE again in my '05 FEH unless I move to a place with rolling hills.

With the new improvements in the '09 FWD FEH, I'm hoping to get back to 50mpg tanks after break-in, even with ethanol.

GaryG

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

I may have spoke to soon! A new simple and safe hypermiling technique has been discovered for slower driving by Dan at CleanMPG.com.

GaryG

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Hi Gary :)

You're the man who took my FEH to >60mpg at the MPG Challenge last summer, & that was on E-10 gas :) :) I *know* once your FEH is used to sipping E-10, you'll get your 50mpg tanks back - I finally topped 50mpg on a tank the month *before* I learned Dan's DGE technique, & I'm working on another one now :) :) :)

You could always move to WI (now that you're having to deal with E-10 anyway) ;)

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

GaryG, can you put in a link to Dan's new technique? He's rather prolific on that site and I don't have time to search through his post.

TIA.

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Sure can My Part, post 21.

http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showt...t=12811&page=3

Enjoy folks!

GaryG

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Unfortunately its underlying strategy of operating in neutral is illegal in most states (for those who care about what you are doing is legal or not).

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Hi Debbie

It seems there is very little adjustment in the long term fuel maps with E-10. I'm on my 5th tank and I see nothing but bad with ethanol and the FEH Atkinson cycle. No question now that your rolling hills was what helped me with E-10 in the MPG Challenge. I've had a big advantage with straight gas here in Florida, but flat roads and E-10 are a brutal on my mileage now. Dan's technique helps overcome the loss of energy by maintaining a constant speed on flat roads.

Good luck in the MPG Challenge this year Debbie and I want you to beat my record with Dan's new technique and the rest of your skills. The '09 FEH/MMH should be hard to beat next year, but I have no plans to drive all the way to Madison during Hurricane season.

GaryG

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

:P Civil Disobediance Gator.... its what this country was founded on. We can't change washington b/c we can't afford big lobbying firms to take Congress out to lunch or send the on vacations...err I mean speaking engagments. lol Next best thing we can do is drop it in neutral and save some ca$h.

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Well Gator, I live on the other side of the coast of Florida and want to know the law that you speak of. When was it adopted and why? Do you think it may have been recommended because it was copied from a State that had serious mountains when cars and trucks had poor braking problems and transmissions back in the days? I would take my chances in court any day a dumb cop or FHP tried to enforce that law.

The truth is we have a serious economic problem caused by big oil. What is your solution? My solution is to help people survive this rip off of the American public by Big Oil.

GaryG

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Now Gary, you know we can't just blame this on Big Oil or little Bush. Dont forget Congress for opening up Crude Oil commodity trading to the public when it was originally designed to protect airlines and major public transportation methods from fluxuating fuel prices, and lobyists, and partisan bickering across the isle, and the Big 3 in Detroit, and every insane tree hugging bunny lover who feels that "their" renewable energy idea is the "only" way to go, me included. Oh, and we have to blame my father-in-law because...well, it just feels right. :P
I could go on and on and on but...... :zip:

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Interesting - so the hills that are my nemeses can actually help me to get metter mileage. Hey, I'll take whatever works :) I will say that with DGE, hills don't scare/frustrate me as much :) :)

Thanks Gary :) I'm going to do my best :) :) :)

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

I have a lot of rolling hills in northwest MO and have been adjusting to the E-10 mandate that started here in January. Not sure if it's the hills or just being better at the techniques (probably both), but I am seeing 1-2 mpg improvements March-June compared to last year. I was really worried I'd see and overall decline this year compared to last.

-- Rick

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

During the MPG Challenge, I used EV to climb as many hills as possible. The lost of energy of E-10 would only add to higher RPM's trying to climb hills. It's a habit that I use EV for climbing bridges when traffic permits here in Florida. The flat roads take more energy accelerating for the best P&G, so when that energy is reduced by E-10, it pays off better just to maintain a steady state speed in and out of EV. With DGE, you can smoothly go into EV with less lost in speed and not put a fast drain on the battery energy increasing speed. The trick for the FEH is to find the right SOC perimeters like hypermilers have done in the Prius.

Dan is a long time Prius hypermiler that uses this technique of not using assist and maintaining a low energy demand with both the battery and the engine. My past techniques don't work as well with E-10 here in Florida where the A/C compressor runs to cool the battery. The load of the compressor and flat roads with E-10 require me to alter my driving habits.

Rolling hills helped me adjust my driving habits better with E-10 and it may have also lessen the hit of E-10 on you. You getting better with the techniques also makes a big difference. My climb to 50mpg tanks didn't happen over night. Hopefully my climb back to a 50mpg tank on E-10 won't take as long this time. Unlike you, my best mileage is during winter and my worst is during summer.

GaryG

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

Unfortunately most of the hills on my daily commute are longer than I would try to EV and being 2 lane highways (55mph), and sometimes a little busy, so I try to gather some speed on the previous downhill, and target as high an MPG as I think I can get away with depending on traffic. I don't like to get much below 45mph as that limits the glide on the next downhill and at some point you get diminishing returns of you let the speed get too low.

This works pretty good though. On one stretch of about 7 miles of hills just after the FEH gets good and warmed up in the morning, I can usually gain 5-7mph on the current trip FE on the SGII!

One thing I have noticed with my 2007 FEH is that the SoC does not seem to regen as strongly when I let it get below 42 as you have mentioned in other posts. Do you think this changed in later model years? I am really reluctant to let SoC get too much below 42, especially if I need to accelerate with any amount of assist. It really increases RPMs to maintain speed, especially uphill.

Thanks,

Rick

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

I take everything I can under consideration when climbing hills or staying up with traffic. If I'm on a two lane road with no traffic, I drive much slower uphill than I do with traffic. Most of the time I will slowly increase speed before a hill in traffic and try to hold or slowly lose speed as I climb with the ICE ON. Having two SG's allows me to monitor Load and other instant gauges like RPM, SoC and MPG.

The '07 is said to have less regen energy than the '05 FEH. When I drove the '08, I found that was the case also. My '05 has strong regen and will go EV faster in "L" than the '08. As far as dropping below 42% and getting less regen, I don't think that's whats happening in the '07. I just think the max regen threshold is set at a higher SoC in the '07 and '08. I really notice the ICE RPM trying to run away when my SoC drops to 32% during the warm-up strategy. For this reason I make sure I'm at a steady state speed to hold RPM's as low as possible when the strategy ends. What I think I'm hearing you say is both the generator and regen don't allow as fast of a recharge of the HV battery as the '05 at 42% SoC. Ford may have adjusted charging slower to reduce the battery heating problems I have in my '05.

I'm sure the '09 FEH will take some adjusting to get use to also.

GaryG

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

I just might be able to do that, Gary :) My commute (~10mi) yesterday came in at 60.2mpg; today it was *only* 58.5mpg :D

If I didn't have to fill up Friday AM before leaving for Madison, this could have been a >700mi. tank :) :)

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

... and it will probably follow the 2008 model of less regen, especially since they canned the battery A/C for 2009.

I am wondering ... is there a correlation between the earlier FEH having the best MPG?

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

I do not believe this is true. The reports from experienced users indicate the newer versions drop into EV quicker and more frequently. This might benefit "Joe and Jane Sixpack" more than the hypermiler champions as the drivers will not have to resort to "certain driving methods" to coax "improved" fuel efficiency.

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

It doesn't seem to me that regen is charging the battery any faster under 42% than it does at higher SoC levels. So if the max regen threshold is higher that would make sense. It seems to pack in the charge as quickly at say 49% as it does at 41% or 42%. So perhaps the '07s are pretty constant across most of the range, but not as fast as '05s when under 42%.

Given higher RPMs once the ICE kicks in below 40% I'm reluctant to ride the SoC very low since I don't seem to be able to build it back with regen any quicker.

-- Rick

Re: Ordered our 09 FEH and have a few questions
 

One poster complained that his wife didn't like the way her neck was snapped when he did a Fake Shift in "L" in his '05 FEH. Took my Jack Russel to the Vet yesterday and noticed he was having a hard time staying in the front seat and not falling on the floor board when I did a FS in "L". It doesn't matter what the SoC is, when the battery can accept a charge, the FS in "L" feels this way in my '05. I've never drove an '06 FEH, but my guess it is the same as the '05 FEH.

It's hard to say if the '05 gets better mileage than the '07 or '08 FEH. On one hand you get a faster charge with regen, but you also slow the vehicle faster.

I'm not sure if there was any change in how the small motor/generator (MG1) charges in the later models. The MG1 charges much faster the lower the SOC is in my '05. As the SoC increases, the slower the charge from MG1. One way to see this is watch the instant MPG get better as the battery SoC increases. My HV battery climbs from 32% very fast by MG1 and the instant MPG after the warm-up strategy is very low, but climbs fast as the battery SoC increases.

No question that the '09 FEH will alter my driving techniques from my '05 FEH.

GaryG