TC and F/awd vehicles.

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  #91  
Old 07-06-2009, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

Originally Posted by wwest

The earliest versions apparently had over-heating problems/issues

This has not been documented by Willard and he only assumes it was an issue.
 
  #92  
Old 07-06-2009, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

The cited section, 4wd systems, does not apply to the hybrid Escape.
 
  #93  
Old 07-06-2009, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

Originally Posted by Bill Winney
The cited section, 4wd systems, does not apply to the hybrid Escape.
It says "gas only"? You are looking at a '06 shop that doesn't apply to the Hybrid?? What does the front cover say? How can you repeat what's said in a manual that doesn't apply? They had a 4WD HYbrid in '06, didn't they? There should be a section covering it.

The 2009 Escape/Mariner/Escape Hybrid WorkShop Manual contains no special 4WD for Hybrid section.

Are you looking at the 2006 Escape/Mariner/Escape Hybrid Workshop Manual as listed at Helm, Inc?
 

Last edited by wptski; 07-06-2009 at 04:43 PM.
  #94  
Old 07-06-2009, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

Yes, I purchased my manuals from Helm, Inc. and are copyrighted by Ford Motor Company.

Go take a look at the index... the section he cited is under the heading of Escapes with "manual transmission, clutch, and transfer case." I am sure those options weren't available in '06 for the hybrid.

The correct citation should have come from section 205. Go take a look.
 
  #95  
Old 07-06-2009, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

Originally Posted by Bill Winney
Yes, I purchased my manuals from Helm, Inc. and are copyrighted by Ford Motor Company.

Go take a look at the index... the section he cited is under the heading of Escapes with "manual transmission, clutch, and transfer case." I am sure those options weren't available in '06 for the hybrid.

The correct citation should have come from section 205. Go take a look.
Do you have a section 308-07A? What does it say about AWD on 205-00-1 and again on 205-02-1 on how power is directed?

You haven't replied why you think that the 4WD section doesn't apply to a FEH. No 4WD in '06?
 

Last edited by wptski; 07-06-2009 at 06:12 PM.
  #96  
Old 07-06-2009, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

Originally Posted by wptski
Where did you get the info about the 0-50% rear wheel torque? Nothing is explained in detail in the shop manuals about this at all.

This dual clutch (electromagnetic/mechanical) driveline coupling technique is now quite widely used, Mazda, Ford, Toyota (Venza), Lexus (2010 RX350), and Porsche's new 2010 911. My "knowledge" is a compilation of all the information across the board.

The manual states that there is temperature sensing of the ATC unit and if an increae is sensed, it goes into a "locked mode"(not explained).

If the rear driveline clutch is fully engaged, LOCKED, no clutch slippage, then there will no heat generated within the clutch itself.

If temperature still incrases in "locked mode" the ATC is disabled and you must leave the vehicle running for tem minutes for it to cool down. Nothing is mentioned about how you know if it's in the "locked mode" or ATC has been disabled!
I thought that the temperature sensing of the clutch only applied to earlier models.
 
  #97  
Old 07-06-2009, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

Originally Posted by wwest
I thought that the temperature sensing of the clutch only applied to earlier models.
I would have guessed that "locked mode" means 100% duty cycle also which would generate less heat.

That's from a '09 FE/MM/FEH/MMH WorkShop Manual.
 
  #98  
Old 07-23-2009, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

Originally Posted by wptski
What does a FEH or owning one have to do with TC/AWD?
The Ford implementation of AWD is very different from Toyota, and the TC programming is also different. Ford developed their software and hardware separately from Toyota; although the two concepts are similar, the implementation is different.

Thus, owning an FEH means one has the documentation and driving experience to share with other FEH owners about Ford products.

wwest tends to spout Toyota information in the FEH threads, which is why he is on my ignore list - I cannot trust that any information he provides definitively applies to the FEH as opposed to the HSD.
 
  #99  
Old 07-23-2009, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

Originally Posted by stevedebi
The Ford implementation of AWD is very different from Toyota, and the TC programming is also different. Ford developed their software and hardware separately from Toyota; although the two concepts are similar, the implementation is different.

Thus, owning an FEH means one has the documentation and driving experience to share with other FEH owners about Ford products.

wwest tends to spout Toyota information in the FEH threads, which is why he is on my ignore list - I cannot trust that any information he provides definitively applies to the FEH as opposed to the HSD.
Hey, if you have inside information on the Ford 4WD/AWD and know how it works exactly, please let me know. I've email Ford, they said get the manuals or go to your dealer. The books don't explain the amount of rear wheel torque under normal driving conditions. I stumped two service techs and the service manager last week. The service manager aggreed to call their Tech HotLine. They called back and said nothing more than what's been printed and also said that there are no published specs on what I asked!! Somebody knows because somebody designed it!

I "think" but not positive that several manufacturers including Ford is using the same ATC unit in their rearends, well actually whoever builds the rearends for Ford.

Why do you have to list the people on your ignore list in the open????
 
  #100  
Old 07-24-2009, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: TC and F/awd vehicles.

Originally Posted by wptski
Hey, if you have inside information on the Ford 4WD/AWD and know how it works exactly, please let me know. I've email Ford, they said get the manuals or go to your dealer. The books don't explain the amount of rear wheel torque under normal driving conditions. I stumped two service techs and the service manager last week. The service manager aggreed to call their Tech HotLine. They called back and said nothing more than what's been printed and also said that there are no published specs on what I asked!! Somebody knows because somebody designed it!

I "think" but not positive that several manufacturers including Ford is using the same ATC unit in their rearends, well actually whoever builds the rearends for Ford.

Why do you have to list the people on your ignore list in the open????
RE: Ignore list. So that people understand that I will not have read certain posts.

The interesting thing about the FEH (as opposed to the Toyota) Hybrid AWD systems is that it is identical mechanically to the non hybrid. The Toyotas use individual electric drives on the rear wheel, which can over heat and shut down (although this seldom happens in the real world, from what I have read).

I have a feeling that Ford considers most of it's hybrid programming very secret, and chooses not to produce any documentation that explains their AWD drive routines and how they actually implement the AWD. Of course they publish any maintenance guides required, but that is different from the design of how the system operates. So about all we know is that the sales literature says that it is "intelligent" 4WD and adapts to road conditions, rather than reacts to road conditions. But this is really only implied in the sales literature.
 

Last edited by stevedebi; 07-24-2009 at 03:43 PM.


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