I just thought I'd share my calculations with the board here in case anyone is trying to figure out if it is worthwhile for them. Obviously, everything depends on the options/features you get so I made some adjustments. Anyway....here is how I broke it down for my Mariner Hybrid:

We wanted all the options so it worked out to $34,220 MSRP. Dealer came down $1993 on the price to bring our total to $32,227. A loaded "Regular Mariner" with the V6 runs you $29,455. Edmunds lists typical retail price in my area at about $27,900 but to be fair I used the same discount of $1,993 to bring the price to $27,462.

Now, the Nav/Hybrid system is not available on the regular version and the regular version includes the 6 Disc changer system so I took the cost of the Nav ($1995) off the Hybrid and added the cost of the 6 Disc CD ($595) to the Hybrid to get an adjusted price of $30,827. I then applied PA sales tax of 7% to each vehicle:
Hybrid: $32,985
Regular: $29,384
Difference: $3,601
Less $1,950 Tax Credit: $1,651 Total premium

Then I took estimated mileage driven per month, divided by fuel economy estimates, and came up with monthly fuel costs. I then determined that the fuel savings would pay for the price difference in month 32 (February of 2009). This is based on EPA estimates. I think I will be able to exceed these numbers but to be fair I used them here.

 

How do you get a 200% increase in fuel economy?

 

hi

let me do a 'real world ' comparison.

Bought the ford escort off my wife for 2k. Its a 98 se sedan basic model with 75 k miles on it. This included all the taxes etc...

bought an 06 highlander hybrid limited 4x4 -cant get more expensive etc - for 39k (41k mrsp including freight to florida and nav system) so we 'saved' 2k on the purchase price.

paid a jillion dollars for taxes insurance plates, and of course the 7 year bumber to bumper 100k no deductable insurance.

Total price = 43k all inclusive.

Since then have put 675 miles on it in 2 months. Drive the escort mostly still as it gets 25-30mpg city. 35-40 mpg highway with hypermiler methods.

Highlander gets 24-25 mpg as we are afraid to rack up miles on it, due to resale value in the future. Therefore drive it in city so we are driving the same amount of time, but of course stop and start, will put few actual miles on it.

After a year, with our miser efforts to keep as much resale as possible, the hybrid should have 3k miles on it or less, therefore be worth still 32-33k. perhaps less but certainly not more.

The escort has 78k miles on it now, due to moving from ohio to florida, so i suspect it will have 81k or 83k max miles on it by next year. Its resale value should be about 1800 or 1900 by then.

So - considering we pay about 600 a year for ins for the escort and about 1300 for the hybrid, there is another 700 buckaroonies out the window.

so - we will lose about 11k (not considering gas or checkups) on the highlander. Mostly in depreciation.

we lose about 800 bucks (that includes a years insurance) for the escort, which wont start breaking down until about 90 -110k .

Anyone here still think they bought a hybrid to save money? Thats ridiculous. Buying a small used car with reasonable mileage on it is the best bargain by far.

Instead of trying to figure out how you can 'break even' vs a regular brand new car, try instead to figure out how much you can minmize your loss - in exchange for helping the environment.

 

I'm not sure why you'd buy a $40k car and then not drive it. Depreciation isn't that much for the miles added.

If you're ever in an accident, that Highlander will do a lot better then the Escort will, plus you get all the creature comforts of a newer model car.

 

sir

we drive the thing almost daily, but only short trips to the store etc. We have driven it 3 times round trip for 170 each time. But no, you obviously dont understand the difference between dealer trade value and private sale value.

deal trade is a ripoff and we all know it. So private sale it. Selling this hybrid 3 years from now with 9k miles on it will be way easier than selling it with 36k miles on it. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Its all in the mind of the consumer that 9k or so means basically brand new. You will get WAY more offers and bidding wars.

I dont understand your insurance thing. The higher the value of the car, the more the insuance company will try to undercut you at payout. Im sure Gap insurance can deal with that, but thats also extra. For all those who buy cash, have fun duking it out with your ins company to get the real value of your car back. With the escort, its all relative. The ripoff offer from ins will cost us what? 3 or 400 dollars?

The thrill of buying new is of course what its all about. But if you wanna get into that discussion, it would completely defeat the whole 'hypermiling' gas saving topic which of course makes up 99.999999999999% of this blog for some reason.

In the end, anyone who buys a new car had BETTER be buying it for the fun of it - because they are gunna lose tens of thousands of dollars no matter what they do. Its the basic , funamental way the auto industry works.

So buying a hybrid was to help the enviroment, not do some fancy tap dancing to justify how it 'will pay for itself' .

The moment you left the lot you got ripped off.

 

While I applaud your motivation to drive something cleaner, in my opinion, purchasing a new car to be driven so few miles was a mistake economically if you intend to unload it in just 3 years. You will lose significant value on ANY new car under those conditions. So your circumstances don't really make an effective case for or against a hybrid so much as against purchasing new.

There is an excellent article in the June/July issue of Home Power magazine that does a very effective summary of the cost/benefits of hybrid vs. non. And while tax credits help to expedite the payoff period for the additional cost, it's pretty clear that holding a hybrid for just 3 years isn't likely to save you much if any money vs. the non-hybrid.

If however you plan to hold onto the vehicle for ten years, which many environmentally and financially conscious people will likely do, a FEH driven 20,000 miles/year will net an estimated $7800 in savings over that period. That estimation also takes into account a projected $3000 battery replacement at 100,000 miles (which many people seem to believe may be a pessimistic projection of the battery service life). In other words, net savings could approach $11000 or more at the end of ten years barring having to replace the batteries. Now compare that to projected resale value of a comparable non-hybrid at that time, and it's a safe bet you will have earned your money back in spades.

 

Amen, snax!

(I'd write more, but you've hit all the points I was very inarticulately pushing around in my head.)

 

very valid points


i stand corrected in the assumption that selling the car off in 3 years would result in a loss as the depreciation becomes dramaticly less. Well done.

However, if the idea is to hold onto the car for 10 years, none of us would be here. In fact, several folks easily admit in their posts that they traded this or that in after a couple of years. Some folks traded in an older hybrid for a newer model now.

My impression is a guess. My guess is that these hybrids are still prototypes and much improvement is going to be made in the next 3 years to bring in the plug in hybrid and or the diesel hybrid. Therefore its my impression better to keep the miles on this model as low as i can so i can unload it for a car that CAN in fact get 100mpg or plug in at night , which i suspect is coming in 3 years.

I highly doubt even 5% of all who are on this site will still have the vehicle they have now in 10 years. They would be here in an overpriced hybrid.

So my original statement stands. You say you need to stay in the car 10 years? The very car you are in right now will be a DINOSAUR even 5 years from now. You claim you are gonna be happy with that - but you are on a hybrid site after purchasing the latest technology.

I find it hard to believe even 5% of us are going to sit in this prototype hybrid for 10 years as way better vehicles -plug ins -diesel options and whatever else, comes by.

Nope. You are gonna stick to your guns and stay in this vehicle as it becomes more and more of a dinosaur. Sorry, i find that dubious.

You want to talk finances? How about the idea that has always worked? Purchase a car 5 years old -after someone ELSE took the hit on depreciation, deal with the DINOSAUR technology, and save a lot of money .

Buying a hybrid DOES NOT save you money. Only when its compared over 10 years to a regular BRAND NEW CAR . In no other way does it save money. Like every new car, its a ripoff.

So obviously none of us bought the hybrid to 'save money' . None of us are gonna sit in the thing for 10 years. If we were built that way, we would still be in our old car that was paid for, as the extra gas we pay is never more than the depreciation on an new car. This is what is HILARIOUS about everyone trying to squeeze an extra mpg -to save what ? vs what they LOSE in depreciation for buying the thing in the first place.

Buy it for the enviroment. I want to get as much for this one as possible when the plug ins come out -if they do!!!

 

Why, oh why, Tom, do you presume that everyone thinks and operates and has the same motivations as you do?
I can break your "no one" logic in two seconds because, guess what, I'm definitely keeping my new car for at least ten years. I've done it in the past ('92 Corolla) and I'm doing it again. Yet you find something you don't understand, because it doesn't fit your own rationale, and label it "dubious". Odd.

People do things for lots of reasons. Don't assume you know what they all are just because you have a certain mindset. I don't assume to know why you'd buy a new vehicle, hardly drive it, and want to sell it off in 3 years time, and I certainly don't set myself up for being wrong by saying NO ONE does that. You're proof that some people do, and that's fine and dandy.

/shrug

Enjoy your way of doing things and I'll enjoy mine. My '92 Corolla is no dinosaur. She's probably in better condition than some people's 5-year-old vehicles. Go figure. When you want to keep something a long time, you take care of it AND use it. The only reason I'll be selling my Corolla is to remove a third vehicle from our insurance and stop having to play car shuffle everytime we want to take a garaged vehicle out for a drive.

 

I don't think 5 year old cars are dinosaurs.

My 2001 Focus is just as good as a 2006 Focus.