Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

Ford has more Hybrids planned:

"Ford chairman Bill Ford said his company expects to have five hybrid petrol-electric vehicles on the market in three years. "It's only the start and it's only one of the fuel efficient technologies we're working seriously on," he said."

http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/st...toryid=2490159

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

What took him so long? Ford could package the FEH powerplant in the Freestyle crossover vehicle right now without having to re-program the computer (Freestyle is in the same weight class as FEH, and is FWD). That would have spread out their R&D investment and have a formidable competitor in the minivan market. The cheesy thing is...when Ford says they will offer 4 more hybrids, they really mean 2 more platforms but badged twice (Ford and Mercury). How about a hybrid Focus with a 1600 cc (or smaller) engine. That would be able to compete with Prius and Civic. But, at least Ford is trying, and was the first US automaker to offer a true hybrid!! Maybe Alan Mullaly could light a fire under Ford's management and the board of directors.

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

LOL, why not ask the simple question? Where is the Ford Fusion Hybrid? It was shown to us in 2005. There's even a picture of a parking lot full of them taken in 2006!

The answer is, in all likelyhood, because the FEH, and indeed all Ford hybrids were never really meant to be sold. Oh, sure, it's great that people buy them and love them, but really the FEH's duties aren't in that arena, it's to raise the CAFE standards, give them something to help advertise the conventional Escape, gives them a media shield that they can fall behind (Take a look at their new advertising for the FEH, about the recycled components. Why?), and to deflect criticism. "Why aren't the American companies making hybrids?" We are, there's the FEH. And perhaps in the future, there may be more.

The FFH was shown to us, announced loudly in the later months of 2005. Then it didn't make news and wasn't shown at the Auto Shows. Then around that time, it mysterously dropped off www.fordvehicles.com and the head of the Hybrid developpment and future sustainable technologies quits and leaves Ford. Then rumors popped up, the FFH was canceled. Then what? Nothing. It disapeared off everyones radar. People at the Auto Show circuits had no idea about the FFH, or any other hybrid prospects, and now here it is, 3 years later and there isn't so much as a peep. Instead, suddenly the new micro RV Hydrogen powered Hy-Wire shows up! Wow! :angry:

The initial idea was to hybridize the FEH/MMH/MTH, then the Fusion, then the Edge, and finally the Freestyle by today. That was the timeline we were shown and this was told to us by the engineers at Ford, during the Ford Escape Experience along with the department people and the head of Hybrid and sustainable technologies. It seems clear now why there was a change in leadership, and why suddenly despite all the lead time that they had in the FEH in the Hybrid SUV market, you never see it heavily advertised and why it's remained the only Hybrid offering on the road. Because Ford Motor Company doesn't need another hybrid for their marketing and media shielding purposes that's already on the road. Future ones that are sometime off are great, and serve the purpose of keeping people from examining why there aren't more now.

Hopefully one day, they'll wake up and get moving. However, they've lost a lot of time doing nothing. GM's Dual Mode may well give HSD a run for it's money, especially if they mate it to a smaller engine (They're still attaching it to V6's and V8's :confused: ), and they don't seem to be as interested in competing in the midsize sedan or small vehicle class either hybridwise.

Personally, if I were Ford, I'd have already Hybridized and released the S-Max. It's a EU vehicle that replaced the aging Focus design. It wasn't released in the USA because Ford didn't feel there was sufficient need to change the plants over. It just happened to get tremendous FE on it's own, as a Diesel, and won Europes car of the year, a first in the history of Ford. It's a sharp looking vehicle that I think would sell very well over here, and with a good Hybrid Drivetrain could give the Prius a good run for the money, but again, that would be a sensible move, and since it doesn't involve the F-series trucks, it's a second tier product at best. :(

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

Ford's definition of a hybrid is a car that can be towed by a flex fuel tow truck after it breaks down

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

Anything that Ford says will take more than 2-3 years to develop is irrelavent anyway, since that company will be out of business in 4-5 years if they don't figure out how to build vehicles that Americans actually want to buy. (Ditto for GM, except they probably have a 5-6 year time horizon before their doom is unavoidable)

I don't know why Ford refused to develop hybrid counterparts for their popular cars like the Focus and Mustang. Geez! How could you lose with a hybrid Mustang? Sporty AND fuel efficient?

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

My Dad would love a hybrid Mustang. He also really wishes they'd make a Volvo hybrid.

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

is there anything we could do? write a letter to Ford or something? If they did some of the ideas on this post, they could beat Toyota! they have already done that in Quality (according to JD Power)... with these new ideas of a Taurus X Hybrid and a few more, they would be unstopable! Why arent they doing this? What is stopping them?:angry:

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

The Taurus would have made a great hybrid, might have given Toyota a run for the money if they had been that smart. At one time, it was the most popular car in America. They just stopped improving it and updating and from what I heard stopped building it this year, which actually made an ABC news story. (They might have decided otherwise, not sure.)

The Mustang would also have been a nice hybrid but probably not as good a mileage car as the Taurus would have been.

Ford does have some good cars but I don't know what the heck they are doing. I had an ancient Ford Falcon once which was a good little car and maybe the last American car I ever owned.

--des

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

Heh, I've missed out a few things on my little rant.

Bill Ford, as you may recall, started doing commercials about the re-invigoration of the company at about that time (summer of '05), and indeed came up with the Hybrid Promise, 250,000 Ford Hybrids on the road by 2010 (? Might have been later) and then, just after Mary Ann Wright, the nice lady who was the mother to the FEH, head of sustainable and future technologies, left Ford Motor Company, about two weeks later, Ford backs out of the Hybrid Promise, and starts the Ethanol Promise.

It's about that time that the FFH dropped off the radar.

The Fusion, with a similiar drivetrain to the FEH would've been easy Ford competition to the TCH and the HAH (When it was out) in the Hybrid sedan market. A Focus or (again) the S-Max would've made competition with the Prius and HCH MPG wise.

I was at the Chicago Auto Show, where they unveiled the "Taurus" the "Taurus X", and the "Sable". I was immensely disapointed, but in reading the materials my disapointment grew. They didn't just change the badging. They decided to install a larger engine and a higher price tag to them as well: A move that I call disasterous. The Freestyle was already far too expensive (As I've pointed out before, it costs more than an Explorer, and is about the same price as 2 FEH's!), but then they lower the FE and raise the price? How is that going to help in today's climate?!?

It's almost as if they're deliberately choosing to shoot themselves in the foot. Repeatedly.

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

I had a 2007 Ford Fusion with the I4 as a loaner car.

Do you know that thing got 37 MPG on the highway averaging 55-60 MPH?!

All I need is FAS in the city, and I'm beating the fuel economy of my FEH!

:lightbulb :lightbulb :lightbulb :lightbulb :lightbulb :lightbulb :lightbulb :lightbulb :lightbulb :lightbulb

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

so we cant do anything about this? this is so sad

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

Ford Fusion Hybrid will be introduced at the November 2007 California auto show. This will be a early release of the 2009 hybrid Fusion Hybrid model which will go on sale in 2008. Fusion Hybrids have been seen at the Kansas City Escape production factory in 2007. See the photo below of a Fusion Hybrid:

http://images.leftlanenews.com/conte...ion-hybrid.jpg
You can try this link

http://www.leftlanenews.com/spied-fo...on-hybrid.html

:lightbulb

Ford's slowness of bringing additional hybrid models to the market place also deals with the word profit! Many of us with the Escape Hybrid keep reading and hearing Ford does not make money on each sale. This was true with the Toyota Prius until sometime in the year 2006. Ford's financial status does not allow them to build unlimited hybrids if they don't make money on them.:omg:

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

Maybe Ford isn't putting out hybrids because that isn't what their customers want. For example to my knowledge you can't buy a Ford pickup with a six cylinder. The base engine is a 4.6L V-8, I think. That's probably because the six wasn't selling. Same with the FEH. Anyone know how many they have sold? The FEH may have been less a plot to deceive and buy media coverage, than a product to test sales of hybrids in the market they hold an advantage in, namely light trucks and SUVs.

The Ford F150 pickup is still the number one selling vehicle in the world. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 750,000 per year. Incidentally, Chevy and Dodge aren't far behind. Each of the three outsell the Camry and Accord, and they have done so consistently for more than two decades.

I usually don't advocate for government action. But if we want our national fuel economy standards to improve I have a feeling that the government will need to mandate efficient technology the same way they did safety standards, seat belts and airbags for example.

CAFE standards won't do it. Those standards are, IMO, as much responsible for the proliferation of SUVs and light trucks as anything else. People, in the U.S. anyway, want larger vehicles and if they couldn't get a car... well, first thing you know the domestic automakers spot a trend and start marketing and producing product to meet demand.

If every vehicle is required to incorporate efficient technology (plug in hybrids burning 50% sawgrass ethanol being my personal favorites :D). But there are also others, cylinder deactivation, auto-off at stoplights etc. And tons of other options as well.

But I digress. I would love it if Ford were to put out more hybrids. But the biggest bang for our buck is going to be when every vehicle sold makes some big reductions in gasoline consumption.

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

You kinda landed on the answer to the question posed earlier. Ford was at one time committed to providing a wider portfolio of hybrids, but along the way, two significant occurences altered their path.

1. Their financial condition deteriorated rapidly, requiring a fast look at which product programs to fund and which to delay. Since hybrids ten to sell in the 10s of thousands and mid-size sedans, SUVs, and pickups all sell in the hundreds of thousands, the decision was probably fairly simple.
2. Mary Ann Wright left the company, leaving a hole in the hybrid product development plans. Whether she left because the company was putting more emphasis behind flex-fuel, or whether the company put more emphasis on flex-fuels because she left is sort of chicken and egg. Hard to tell which caused which, but both are feasible.

As far as just making the Freestyle (now called Taurus X) a hybrid by using the Escape system, there's a couple problems with that. They are not in the same weight class, do not use the same powertrain lineup, and would require a significant amount of engineering resource to pull off. Remember note 2 above wrt resources. The Escape uses either a 2.3L I4 and a 3.0L V6. The Taurus X uses a 3.5L V6. Typically a hybrid application is developed to work with a particular engine / transmission combination. Since the 2.3L is not already in the Taurus X portfolio, engineering it in would take a couple years and 10s of millions of dollars.

Another problem is that the Escape system is a system that Ford is buying from Toyota's partner, Aisin. When Ford wanted to increase capacity, Aisin was unable or unwilling to do so. What would make Ford think they would be willing to provide volume to support an additional application? Ford would also likely have to pay royalties to Toyota / Aisin to develop the new application. Again, refer to note 2 above.

Finally, a hybrid system is more than just an electrical system addition and a battery. There is significant interaction with other parts of the vehicle (chassis, braking, even radio) and would require vehicle program levels of staffing and funding. One more time.....see note number 2.

Peace,

Martin

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

Base engine for the F-150 is the 4.2L V6 with about 200 horsepower. Ford also sells the Explorer/Mountaineer with the V6.

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

By the limited "skin" showing in the pic (great to actually see a working product...cough, cough, volt...) is the Fusion hybrid the same sheetmetal as the gasser? Why is Ford doing this? Honda is bringing a brand new hybrid-only model to fight the "hybrid-looks-the-same-as-it's-gas-sibling" syndrome. If the Fusion was NOT like it's gas-only version, I think more people would buy...just my opinion. When given a choice between hybrids and their gas-only lookalikes...buyers seem to NOT want to pay 'extra' for the hybrid...everyday joe and jill don't "see" the difference except price. Offer a unique hybrid model that has features you can't get anywhere else...that way buyers are more apt to go with a hybrid, since the features are not on other vehicles.

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

The root issue here is probably that gas prices are not yet high enough to drive people to hybrids - the payback period is too long. The Insight had limited sales because only a certain number of people would buy a wierd looking 2 seater. Now Prius probably has saturated the market for weird looking 4 seaters. Hybrids need to succeed with "normal" looking/sized cars to continue to penetrate the market. It appears that Lexus/Highlander sales are stuck at a low level and even FEH sales seem to be slowing down after a boost from the jump in gas prices. It may be that it will take $5.00 gasoline to create a sustained large market for hybrids.

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

Your absolutely right Ken. As long as hybrids are looked at differently
from other autos the price of fuel is still too low for many to
consider hybrids. There has been a lot of past discussion about this
on GH and I thank several posters here for coming up with excellent
rebuttals to the current cost examples saying hybrids are not worth
it. I am pleased to be helping our society along with changing the
average person's perception about hybrids as "too expensive or too
radical for me".

Re: Ford to have four more Hybrids in next 3 yrs
 

The Ford Fusion Hybrid is coming out at the Californian auto show this November--or is it December. It should be going on sale by March 2008. There have been photos of it on the web including a Mexican website (Fusion is built in Mexico) that Ford threaten legal action against if it didn't shut down.

Ford's management made a decision to can or delay the Fusion Hybrid (was seen at the Ford Hybrid Experience in October 2005) for reason we don't know but believe are related to finances. Many of us continue to hear that Ford doesn't make much money (if not lose money) on each Hybrid sale secondary to the extra- expenses associated with the hybrid components. Don't worry, Toyota lost money on the Pirius until sometime in the year 2006.