Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Back a while ago I quit keeping track of my mileage and quit being competitive about hypermileing. At the time I mentioned that this would actually save gas but no one bothered to ask how or why gas would be saved. Some have even assumed this all to mean that I'm anti-hypermiler, which in not the case. I'm anti rude driving and anti smug and anti narrow minded thinking but I'm certainly not anti hypermiler.

The reason I quit keeping track of my mileage was in part because I had a series of 6 trips coming up at 500 miles each. Driving at highway speeds would have killed my average in the hybrid. In order to keep my average up I would normally have driven "Night Rider" because the Vette can be driven at highway speeds and still get 28mpg or so which still qualifies as "hypermiling" since it is above EPA. Instead I quit keeping track of my mileage and drove the Honda. I got about 45mpg in the Honda at 70-75mph. Had I taken the Vette I would have burned about 107 gallons gas. By taking the Hybrid I only burned about 67 gallons of gas for a savings of about 40 gallons.

So there you have it. 45 mpg is not a "hypermiler" figure in an HCH but 28 mpg is "hypermiling" in a Vette. Which saves more gas? Get the point? I'm all for saving gas even if it means not being a "hypermiler" on a given tank.

My current driving style on my normal commute is well into "hypermiler" territory but I now drive faster to keep up with traffic and even use the AC every once in a while. My current tank is in the mid sixties.

For the record, I'm not anti-hypermiler!

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

I quite agree with one additional caveat. I'm for improving the engineering and making fuel savings the default. I don't want to add one extra task or distraction to the driver.

Have you considered aerodynamic mods to your hybrid? I've not been under a Honda but I wonder if the underside is a smooth surface. Regardless, all of our hybrids could gain from a front air-dam and side skirts.

I've got a sheet of coroplast, corrugated plastic, and been thinking about forming a front air-dam and side skirts that descend when my speed exceeds 45 mph and retract at lower speeds. This would significantly reduce the high-speed coefficient of drag yet not be a problem around curbs and parking lots. My only concern is dealing with highway debre, tire parts and in the winter, snow and ice.

Bob Wilson

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Actually one of the things that make the hybrid version of the Civic different from the regular version is aerodynamic improvements including a huge smooth plastic shield on the underside of the engine compartment. This shield makes changing the oil a pain in the neck.

I don't see why all Civics couldn't have had similar aerodynamic improvements...

Perhaps the new models do?

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

I think it's important to point out that nobody expects anyone to compete against anybody else. Hypermiling doesn't have to be about being "top dog" as that would be a waste of effort IMO. It's simply about reducing the amount of gas you use while facing your conditions and meeting your own needs. I encounter your situation all the time. Last weekend I had to run a 400mi RT in the Prius at highway speed, which any Prius owner will tell you is NOT a desirable situation for great fuel economy. So I set the cruise at the PSL (65mph) and went about my business. That tank went into mileage log looking pretty lousy, but so what? It doesn't have to be a big deal.

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Lakedude,

You said: For the record, I'm not anti-hypermiler![/quote]

You just did a very interesting Post in that you (Pointed-Out) that saving fuel could simply be as easy as the choice in driving one vehicle versus another.

Like myself I have a AWD-Mercedes and a Honda Civic Hybrid II. Common sense would let anyone know that the choice to (Save-Fuel) would be to drive the HCH II. Like in your case driving the HCH I versus the Corvette.

None of this has anything to do with being against Hypermiling, Period.

I just received numerous PM's from a member because in a different Thread (You) ask the (Question),

How many gallons of gas will be used/wasted going to Hybridfest 2007 ?

I looked at your question as nothing more than that, a-question ? Next thing you know the Post were "Deleted" including your question and the Post after the question.

In all (Fairness) there were No-Negative-Remarks from the Mod. that Deleted the Question or following Post. They were all simply Removed.

I wondered at the time if the Question (You) ask should maybe have been made in a (Different-Area). Like "Fuel-Economy or Other".

As it was asked on the Thread, {Who is Attending Hybridfest 2007} I can see that the question would be taking the Thread Off the original Question.

I would never have even thought to ask that Specific-Question but it is a (Valid-Question) IMO.

Looks like to me it could be replied to here on this Thread.

Reason, this Thread is saying to anyone reading it that (You) are doing your part to "Saving-Gas" by the choices you make. Now this has (Nothing) to do with (You) being {Against-Hypermiling} Members that Practice those Techniques.

If one were to just look at nothing but the (Raw-Facts). There is going to be a "Tremendous" amount of Fuel burned by the Public to Attend and then drive back to Their Homes. This cannot be IMO be Questioned by anyone with any Common-Sense. So without conferring with you and just taking the question you asked on the other Thread, a lot of Gas is going to be Burned.

What I think I would like to also say regarding Hybridfest 2007 is this. It is truly a very (Informative, Educational) Meeting with Major Manufactures/Vendors Contributing Hybrids of all Makes and Models. There will be Speakers at this Meeting on a Variety of Different Topics relating to Fuel-Economy and the Environment. One of the organizers that I personally met at Hybridfest 2006 was Eric Powers (Ericbecky). He is without any doubt IMO a very dedicated individual when it comes to putting together the Team he did last year and this year for Hybridfest 2007. These people spend their personal-time to plan and implement this meeting. If (Anyone) has not been to Last Years Hybridfest 2006 and can possibly attend this years Hybridfest 2007 {I-Personally-Suggest-Going}, you will not be (Disappointed).

So, Yes there is going to be a lot of Fuel-Burned by all that attend Hybridfest 2007 and I guess to just look at the meeting as nothing more than another meeting then can one (Justify) Burning the Fuel it will take to go to this meeting ? When the people going are the one's that are concerned most about (Saving-Fuel).

Everything we do has a Price and to attend Hybridfest 2007 is going to have the Admission-Price of Burning-Fuel.

So is this a (Waste) of our Resources ? You be the Judge:

Personally, I think Hybridfest 2007 and the Information, learned at it is Far-More-Important than the Fuel to Attend: IMHO ;)

Terry (tiger)

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

One of these days I might get to that point, but for now I enjoy the competition -- not so much with others, but with myself. I enjoy the challenge -- and cost savings, especially as gas prices continue their rise -- of pushing the numbers higher. In the process, I am nurturing new habits (which, I might add, have to suppress those ingrained for 30+ years) that will eventually become instinctive. If or when I stop "competing," they will remain.

You raise a valid point. Folks should keep the big picture in view. The numbers are not the be-all, end-all. It's senseless to consume more fuel just for the numbers.

Attending Hybridfest is also part of the big picture, IMHO. It's an investment. An investment implies an expected return greater than what was invested. That's what I expect from HF.

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

I agree, Brick, and do the same. I decide which vehicle is right for the task at hand. I hardly ever (if ever) think "that'll ruin my MPG for this tank so let's take the Tribute instead." I take the Tribute when I might be hauling stuff back that might not FIT in the Civic.

I DO understand the competiveness aspect, though. In fact, it has no doubt been responsible for many of the rest of us getting better MPG - just learning from these ultra competitive folks has helped us. The tips they learned and shared are valuable. I thank them - even in their excessive exhuberance :)

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

lakedude,

I understand what you are saying, but there is no reason to stop tracking this stuff or deleting all your records. You are definitely right though. It is much better to take the hybrid over the 'vette. That doesn't tarnish anything. Besides, that's what the notes are for.

I've faced similar issues. Although I would like to be super-competitive, I also have to be sensible. Until recently, my two vehicles were a Civic Hybrid and an Odyssey minivan. My wife and I share these vehicles depending on our needs for a given day. Both of our daily miles driven can vary dramatically and we try to give the Civic Hybrid to the one who has to drive the most. Luckily, my wife is supportive of my fuel economy interests. However, she does not drive as efficiently as I do. Many times I wished I could drive a vehicle for a full tank, but it seemed so hypocritical to do so. Often it would have meant me driving the fuel efficient vehicle for 15 or 20 miles while my wife drove the van for 100+ miles. I could not do this.

I think you should still keep track of your numbers and keep posting them. People know what you are capable of. If you decide to tone it back a bit and use the AC, who cares? Make a note of it if you want. If you decide to take the hybrid on a road trip instead of a less efficient vehicle, good for you. And, if you feel the need, you can try for one of those record tanks occasionally.

Mr. Kite

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Thats the part I don't get about some of the comments I read on this (and other hybrid forums). Here are some of the statements I disagree with ...

- Driving longer distances just to get a better FE number. My aim normally is to use the least amount of gasoline. Better FE is pointless if the total fuel consumption (litres or gallons used) is more than what it could've been.

- Driving a bad FE car / truck / SUV for short trips / errands just to maintain a higher tank or lifetime FE So what if your FE drops from 52 to 48 if you use your hybrid for a bunch of short trips? The total fuel used for those short trips will still be much less than what your non-hybrid car / truck / SUV uses.

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Mr. Kite,

Not that this (Comment) is necessary or will really for the most part mean much to You or Others. However I just read your Post here and I thought it was interesting. A Nice-Post if you will.

I think if Lakedude reads this he will {Appreciate} you taking the time to do it and the content within.

Terry (tiger)

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

They should but then the difference between mpg would be less and not a good selling point imo.

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Can somebody explain to me what you take away from hybridfest that you didn't already know going in?

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

lakedude,

Are you no longer tracking milage period or just for that period of time where your mpg average would have suffered?

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

LOL. Sounds like my dad when I go running with him when its rear end freezing cold out side. He refuses to time his runs when its that cold. He says it just depresses you. I time all my runs so I can get data. I can understand how much the cold affected my running and use that knowledge in the future. At the same cold temperatures I should run at comparable speeds, all other factors constant. When these times don't match up, I can consider other factors.

So to extend the analogy, no matter how you drive I would reccomend to always track FE, even if you aren't trying to hypermile, just so you can have an idea of whats going on. Your numbers may be low at certain times, but if all of a sudden you get really low numbers and you don't know why, maybe a tire is going flat or something is going wrong!

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Not meant as an insult, but what is UP with the formatting on your post, Terry? It comes out as a complete mess on my screen, all kinds of extra brackets and parenthesis, changes of font, etc., which makes it hard to read.

I think Terry's question is a valid one, though I can understand the urge to get defensive. It's true that there's a certain amount of irony involved in dozens or scores of people driving long distances, either out of their way or to places they ordinarily wouldn't go, using gas they wouldn't otherwise use, to talk about how to save gas. However, I think this falls into the category of an investment in the future. It's like paying extra for your car in the hope that you'll eventually save money on gas in the long run, which some do - the philosophy is quite similar. People spend lots of money to go to college, hoping that they'll get better jobs and make more money than they would have if they hadn't gone, more than enough to pay back the money they spent getting to that point.

An event like the Hybridfest is a step like that, an investment, either in education, public awareness, or just a celebration of the progress we are trying to accomplish as a society. I'm sure Ericbecky could be even more eloquent than me about the goals of the event- I've never even been to a Hybridfest, unfortunately. It's a lofty-minded thing, but probably a lot more justifiable in terms of impact on other people saving gasoline than just about anything else you might be driving around the country doing, and no one asks you to justify the gas you spent on the road trip to your grandmother's.

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Maybe someone should ask about the gas you spent to go to granny's. j/k ;)

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

A sunburn! :D

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Hey Leah,

No offense taken. ;) I just have my way of doing a Post and others have their way. Sorry it is Hard for you to read. However I will have to be Honest with you. I am not going to change the way I do Post/Threds. Hey just try harder. They are not really that Hard-to-Read.

Have a Nice-Day: :angel:

Terry (tiger)

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

:lightbulb Could be one might make New Friends. Could be that you get to see Hybrids that you would not see anywhere else. Could be that you learn something from some of the more informed members that get to go to Hybridfest 2007 like Eric Powers, Wayne Gerdes and others that will be there. I went in 2006 and it was worth the drive and time spent.

Now I realize you were being Funny. I just mentioned the above as some valid reasons to go to Hybridfest 2007.

Trust me there are some really Nice/Interesting Members that will be there. Some are driving a very long distance to be with each other. It is a once a Year Event.

So go to it you are in Chicago: Get with Wayne Gerdes and the other Chicago members and drive over to it.

Have Fun and get some SUN: :sun:

Terry (tiger)

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Actually I would like to go, but I'll be in Ontario for a wedding. Maybe next year!

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Brady,

Never been to Ontario, Canada myself but I think you will have a Great time at the Wedding.

Terry (tiger)

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

I'm with Lakedude. I'm not anti-hypermiler. However, I feel hypermiling can/does get taken to extremes. I believe it's all about your personal comfort level. Some people feel it's okay to coast to nearly a dead stop at the top of a hill with just enough momentum to begin going down the decending side. All the while with several cars behind them. Of course, this is an extreme. So negative comments not required. But, I feel there should be a happy median where hypermilers can live and blend into the local traffic as to not create negative riffs towards hybrid drivers. But, I digress...

I don't call the way I drive hypermiling, but I do what I can to save fuel. If that means doing what Lakedude said and driving the vehicle with better MPG, then that's what I try to do. If it means only setting my cruise control to 5 MPH over the posted speed limit, then I do that. And if it means smoothly and progressively accelerating and smoothly and progressively coming to a stop, well I also do those things. So me a hypermilier? Not according to this forum. But I do save fuel.

I've been considering the idea of not tracking my mileage anymore. It's really of no additional use to me. I don't need to see a history of my tanks. I really only use my current MPG display to see how I'm doing.

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Hi Keith,

A most Excellent Post with the right amount of content on Hypermiling. I am on the same page. I do-not track tanks either. No point I know what I get on a tank of fuel after all this time owning the 2006 HCH II. Like you said I just watch the Gauges on the tank to see how I am doing just for my information and also it lets me know that I made the right intelligent move on purchasing my Hybrid. It or I should say I do not get Great MPG
with my Hybrid because I choose to do the Following with it.

Use A/C with the Climate Control. Both for Summer & Winter:
Use the Cruise Control:
Drive with the Traffic-Flow:
I don't Polk away from Stops:

I drive my Hybrid to enjoy the comfort it was Designed for from Honda. That means as I said I use the Auto Climate Control Year-Round. I love the X/M Satellite Radio and the Bass System from Honda. I set the Cruise-Control at a Comfortable Speed and sit back and Relax. I don't have anyone Blowing-Horns, Finger Gestures, Etc. from other drivers.

My personal opinion is that Honda, Toyota and the other manufactures made the Hybrids to get better FE than the Non-Hybrids. I really do not think they intended their vehicles to be driven any different than their Non-Hybrid Vehicles. I get Great FE with my HCH II even as I drive it and enjoy it. If one wants to do the Real-Hypermiler thing then I say More-Power to them. That is their choice as mine is to me.

Terry (tiger)

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

Differences of opinion and the freedom to act accordingly. Is this a great country or what? :D

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

You said it all, AMEN ;)

Terry (tiger)

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

I just think JimboK is getting too competitive for my tastes. :shade:

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

I suspect some member's blood pressure is rising - "it's Delta Flyer".

Let's have three categories of drivers:
For the record, I've never attacked group #3 - the drivers driving the speed limit and slightly above. My quibbles have been at the speeders or those attacking hypermilers.

Trying to remember if is was Fortune or CNN/Money, but back in May it was mentioned all it takes for pump prices to fall is a 7% drop in gas consumption - easily done by stopping aggressive driving. Simple things like not charging to stop lights - no hypermiling necessary. I would be delighted if as a nation driver's attitudes would change to that extent.

You know I hypermile, but others can easily get by, nor have I had any close calls. Traffic does dictate to a degree what I do - I speed up a bit in heavier traffic.

Re: Explaining my epiphany (or why I'm not anti-hypermiler).
 

<tone of sarcasm> Right! ;)