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Gasoline quality
Hi,
Do you think gasoline in Europe is best or worst than in America or Canada ? I mean, is Eurpean gasoline contains less or more energy than an American or Canadian one ? In Europe, USA is well known for its crude oil and oil companies... So this question is in my head and I have no answer... |
Re: Gasoline quality
This is an interesting question but difficult to answer without laboratory experimentation. In a perfect world, we'd send our samples to the same lab but mailing even small gasoline samples tends to frowned upon by the postal authorities. To me, the only way that makes sense is to build identical, primitive calorimeters and begin gasoline sample testing and exchanging the results.
If we can both get identical sized, aluminum pie pans and a wick burner, we could put a measured amount of water into the pan and use the wick burner to boil off the water. The amount boiled away should be proportional to the energy content of the gasoline. A simple layer of aluminum foil cover over the pan minimizes evaporation loss. If you are interested, let's post photos of what is readily available and we'll see what makes sense. I'm interested because my last gasoline tests used my Prius. I was happy with the results but the method was tedious. It was taking a week per sample to get results. Bob Wilson |
Re: Gasoline quality
Originally Posted by bwilson4web
(Post 191375)
This is an interesting question but difficult to answer without laboratory experimentation. In a perfect world, we'd send our samples to the same lab but mailing even small gasoline samples tends to frowned upon by the postal authorities. To me, the only way that makes sense is to build identical, primitive calorimeters and begin gasoline sample testing and exchanging the results.
If we can both get identical sized, aluminum pie pans and a wick burner, we could put a measured amount of water into the pan and use the wick burner to boil off the water. The amount boiled away should be proportional to the energy content of the gasoline. A simple layer of aluminum foil cover over the pan minimizes evaporation loss. If you are interested, let's post photos of what is readily available and we'll see what makes sense. I'm interested because my last gasoline tests used my Prius. I was happy with the results but the method was tedious. It was taking a week per sample to get results. Bob Wilson But I'm sure someone has pieces of the answer ! I'll try to have an answer from one of my friend who works for a French oil companies... !;) |
Re: Gasoline quality
Hi !
I have some information, it seems that gasoline in US and in Europe haven't the same octane rating ! so it'll be very hard to find the same gasoline in Europe and in US to make the experiment...:( |
Re: Gasoline quality
yup i think Octane would be the issue...
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Re: Gasoline quality
Hi,
Actually it turns out that gasoline is a mix of different hydrocarbons. As a general rule, the denser fuels (aka., diesel) have more chemical energy than the lighter fuels (aka., gasoline.) But the lighter fuels have higher energy per unit of mass, which is not density. I'd read about this in one of the USA EPA publications discussing the different energy content of 'winter' versus 'summer' blends. The way I keep it straight:
Bob Wilson |
Re: Gasoline quality
The answer is "it depends".
Refineries are configured differently, crudes are different and regional product specifications are different at different times of the year. As mentioned above, denser fuels have more energy per unit volume. Higher octane fuels tend to have lower density, so they tend to have lower energy per unit volume, but they have (by definition) a lower tendency towards preignition. Probably the biggest driver is ethanol blended in many but not all of the states in the US. Ethanol has only about 70% of the energy per unit volume as gasoline. In states requiring ethanol which is usually blended at 10%, your mileage will be lower because of the lower energy density. Hope this helps An oil boiler (refinery engineer) |
Re: Gasoline quality
a helpful post! great!
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Re: Gasoline quality
Don't forget same altitude. ;-)
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Re: Gasoline quality
Originally Posted by attilla1
(Post 197640)
The answer is "it depends".
Refineries are configured differently, crudes are different and regional product specifications are different at different times of the year. As mentioned above, denser fuels have more energy per unit volume. Higher octane fuels tend to have lower density, so they tend to have lower energy per unit volume, but they have (by definition) a lower tendency towards preignition. Probably the biggest driver is ethanol blended in many but not all of the states in the US. Ethanol has only about 70% of the energy per unit volume as gasoline. In states requiring ethanol which is usually blended at 10%, your mileage will be lower because of the lower energy density. Hope this helps An oil boiler (refinery engineer) it's very intersting ! In France we have only two kind of unleaded gasoline SP95 (unleaded gasoline with 95 % octane) and SP98 (unleaded gasoline with 98 % octane). The composition of the 5 or 2 % remaining is function of the oil supplyer and of the oil origin. I understand the less light coponents are in the gasoline , the best milage you can get. So, to compare with US gasolines, it seems that european ones have more energy, the US octane purcentage is lower than in Europe because US gasoline contains a great part of ethanol. French gouvernement has just authorized the bioéthanol. Some oil supplyers may began to send it in april. This gasoline will be have a lower energy so ? |
Re: Gasoline quality
HI,
In the US, octane is sold at the pump by the average of research octane and the motor octane. (R+M)/2. Research octane measures tendency towards preignition under no load conditions and motor octane measure tendency toward preignition under load conditions. Research octane is always higher. In Europe, gasoline is sold at the pump based on the research octane. Your SP95 (95 research octane) will be roughly equivalent to our common regular grade 87 (R+M)/2. Adding ethanol will result in a lower energy content per gallon and lower mileage. |
Re: Gasoline quality
Jim is correct that ethanol lowers the energy content. However, ethanol increases the octane rating. My understanding, not tested yet, is E30 can result in net performance parity with straight gas.
Bob Wilson |
Re: Gasoline quality
To be precise, ethanol has a very high research octane of 116, but it is blended with many lower octane refinery streams to generate the common (R+M)/2 common spec of 87.
FYI gasoline futures are quoted as RBOB (Reformulated gasoline Before Oxygenate (ethanol) Blending) which usually has an (R+M)/2 of about 85.5. http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/com...rgyprices.html |
Re: Gasoline quality
I also have almost same question.. because we all know that we have different gasoline companies in our country or in every country. Whats the difference of the gasoline from one company from the other one. Anyway, Here's what I think they make these gasolines depends on the cars of their country.
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Re: Gasoline quality
An even bigger question is the different gasoline blends in this country. A Shell gasoline blend in State A can be different in State B or even within the same state. Why is there so many different (11 in this link:http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05421.pdf ) gasoline blends and why can't there just be one or two?
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Re: Gasoline quality
Originally Posted by eco.conduite.free.fr
(Post 191332)
Hi,
Do you think gasoline in Europe is best or worst than in America or Canada ? I mean, is Eurpean gasoline contains less or more energy than an American or Canadian one ? In Europe, USA is well known for its crude oil and oil companies... So this question is in my head and I have no answer... |
Re: Gasoline quality
Well, I think Gazoline and Diesel have a better quality in France, but since April, we have a new kind of gasoline : E10 (with about 10% of bio-ethanol). I haven't tryed it yet and I think I'll never try it ! I've read an article relative to an UK study about biofuels : the conclusion is that biofuels are not so good for environment : http://www.amisdelaterre.org/IMG/xls...ch_April09.xls and http://www.amisdelaterre.org/IMG/pdf...te_April09.pdf
Moreover, this kind of fuel has a lower density and so, my mileage will be worst. |
Re: Gasoline quality
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Re: Gasoline quality
no..one can find samples from europe fuel but i have heard on int,radio shows
that european fuel is in fact much cleaner than north american fuel even there engine oil has more additives but thats a different topic but yah are fuel is dirtier compared to europes fuel mind you they do pay much more for it than we do here. |
Re: Gasoline quality
Gasoline quality is an issue few people think about. When hurricane Katrina hit in the summer of 2005, gasoline prices soared. Everyone was scrambling to buy the cheapest gas they could find, and the sales volume of premium and mid-range gasoline dropped. They said there was a serious fuel shortage, so refiners who were normally required to make reformulated gasoline (lower emissions) were temporarily allowed to cut some corners so they could produce more gallons of gasoline from each barrel of crude oil. Consequently, there was an unpublicized drop in both fuel quality and octane rating during this period. We also suspect that some oil companies (but not all) also used this opportunity to cut back their use of detergents and deposit control additives in their gasoline.
simulation credit immo - Simulation credit immo. L’Internet a rendu encore plus facile d’obtenir de l’aide pour trouver le credit immo. |
Re: Gasoline quality
refiners who were normally required to make reformulated gasoline (lower emissions) =ethanol which raises octane and dilutes gasoline.
were temporarily allowed to cut some corners so they could produce more gallons of gasoline from each barrel of crude oil.=how do you make more gallons of gasoline per barrel of crude oil by cutting corners? It seems to me if you add detergents and what ever else is put into gasoline, you are diluting the gasoline slightly, thus making more gallons of gas per barrel of crude oil. |
Re: Gasoline quality
Now that most our stations are pumping the 10% blend I've noticed a 2-4MPG loss in my mileage. If they go to the 15% blend, the Gov't is pushing for next year, what will the additional loss per MPG be. Oh but wait...food prices will go up becuase of the diverted corn and more taxes go to the State and Federal Govt's as you will be using more fuel and they get a good portion of their tax dollars from the sale of fuel. :zip:
Oh wait... they think we are idiots and didn't figure this out.... the only idiotic thing we do is to keep voting these true idiots into office. |
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